Gehrig

Interview with Ruth Gehrig aboard the Carnival Cruise ship conquest in interviewer's cabin 9/22/06. Interviewer: Kathleen Ryan

KRSo the tape is now rolling. And I start every interview with a really easy question. Can you please tell me your name and the years you served in the WAVES?

RGAlright. Ruth Kinman Gaerig. I enlisted January of 1944 and was discharged in November of 1945.

KRBefore we go any further, I'd like to ask you if you could please spell your two names for the transcript. Because it may not be me doing the --

RGMy two last names?

KRExactly.

RGK-I-N-M-A-N. Kinman. And Gehrig is pronounced like Lou Gaerig, but it's G-A-E-R-I-G.

KRAnd your name when you were in the Navy?

RGKinman.

KRKinman. Alright. So I want to start -- before we get to the WAVES, I'd like to get a little bit of background information.

RGAlright.

KRCan you -- tell me about growing up.

RGWell, let see I grew up in Duquoin, Illinois. And my mother and father were divorced when my sister and I were very young. There's just 13 months difference in my sister's and my age and she is 13 months older than I. But my mother married this wonderful man who was my stepfather. His name was George Jessico. We had a wonderful wonderful home.

KRKeep going. I'm just turning things up a bit so I can hear you better.

RGHe was a wonderful stepfather. My mother, they just were meant for each other. I went to high school in Duquoin. When I got out of high school, I went to 00:02:00beauty school. That was a six month course. Well, I worked after beauty school for about two months -- two years, and I decided that was not for me. So I, my field was always shorthand and typing. So I got a secretarial job with a transfer company, Owens Transfer, in Duquoin, Illinois. And I worked there until I went into the Navy.

KRWhen did you graduate from high school?

RG1939.

KROK. And you said your field was always secretarial and shorthand. How --

RGThat's what I tool in high school. Shorthand and typing.

KRAh, OK. Just wanted to get some clarification.

RGI should have been clearer.

KRNo! That's OK, I thought that was what you meant, but I figured I'd ask.

RGI'm glad you did.

KRWhen did your mother and stepfather, when did they marry.

RGYou know --

KRDo you remember how old you were?

RGYou know, I have to tell you something. In 2-0-0-3, I had back surgery in December. And then I had another back surgery and developed a staff infection. And I've been -- I didn't get back home until May. Because I was in a skill care center, back to the hospital, skill care center. And I have lost much of memory of the past.

KRThat's OK.

RGBut --

KRWe'll get what we can. That's alright. It's not a big deal.

RGSo it's not going to be very informative.

KROh, it will be very informative, trust me. All of these are very informative, trust me. Tell me -- do you remember Pearl Harbor Day?

RGVaguely, yes.

KRHow did you learn about it?

RGProbably on the radio, I don't know. Because I don't think we had TV back 00:04:00then, at least we didn't. We weren't very affluent. So we went like (laughs), I guess normal people and so that was that.

KRDid things seem to change around your community, do you remember?

RGI don't.

KROK. That's fine, that's fine. Do you remember how you heard about the WAVES?

RGWell, my sister, who is 13 months older than I, this is what I remembered. She decided she was going to go into the WAVES. And I hadn't thought anything about it. But she decided and she joined. And then this young man I was going with, the man I married, he was drafted into the Marine Corps. So I thought, "I'm not going to stay here by myself. I'm going to go into the WAVES too." So that's why 00:05:00I enlisted.

KRIt was just because your sister had joined. You wanted to --

RGAnd then Carl had become a Marine. They were both gone and they were my mainstay. (luaghs) So I decided I would do that.

KRWhy not the Army or one of the other branches open to women?

RGI don't know. Of course she said Navy and then I didn't want to change so that's what I did.

KRDo you think, I mean you're wearing the uniform now. Did that play any --

RGI don't even remember whether the uniform was before I went in. Maybe I did then, but I don't now that it had any.

KRWell, you're certainly proud of your uniform now.

RGOh, definitely. Oh, yes. I've kept it all these 60 years.

KRTell me about the uniform.

RGWhat do you want to know?

KRWhy don't you describe it for me?

RGOh.

KRSince we can't see it --

RGOh, I see. Navy blue skirt. Jacket. Buttons down the jacket. Then my cap which 00:06:00has the anchor here on the front. Of course we always wore white gloves.

KRThen you have on the white shirt and the tie.

RGOh, yes. White shirt and tie.

KRAnd these uniforms were really beautifully made, weren't they?

RGOh yes, oh yes. Very nice. Of course we didn't pay any attention to that. We just knew they were our uniform.

KROf course. So you enlisted in the Navy.

RGYes.

KRDid you go to Hunter College?

RGYes I did.

KRTell me about that.

RGWell, that was a --as much as I can remember, it was a great experience. Very 00:07:00structured. And then from Hunter, I went down to Oklahoma A&M for advanced secretarial training.

KRBecause you were going to be a yeoman.

RGMmm-hmm. Mmm-hmm.

KRDid you, I mean the WAVES did all sorts of things. Is that what you wanted to do?

RGYes, because that was my field. Yes.

KRI know a number of women wanted to do different things. That's why I ask.

RGOh, is that right?

KRYes. "Oh, I was this in my other life, so I wanted to do something else when I got into the Navy."

RGWell, I didn't know there were other things. I guess there were.

KRWhat was it like being with all of those girls? Do you remember?

RGWell, I met a lot of nice friends. They were, we got along well, because I try to get along with everybody. And now I still have two friends that I had way back then. One is in Kansas City, Missouri and the other one is in Allentown, Pennsylvania and we still communicate.

KRWow. That's fabulous.

RGIt is. Roberta Coulter is the gal from Kansas City. And she is one of the national officers. She is the heartsprings chairman. She's in charge of all the coupons that gals donate. I suppose they sell them or do something with them. I don't know. And then Lois, her health has not been very well, very good, but we still call and see how she's feeling.

KRKeep in touch. That's amazing that you've kept in touch with these women all of these years. Because it's so easy to just drift apart.

RGThat is true. Very true. Now the young lady who was in maid of honor when we were married in Washington, I don't know where she is. And, of course, when we decided to get married I had to get permission from my superior to wear a 00:09:00wedding gown and veil and all that. And my mother came to the wedding and Carl's mother came tot he wedding from Duquoin, Illinois. It was quite a spectacular occasion for us.

KRWas he able to get leave?

RGSee, he has been discharged because he had been wounded, had been in the hospital and recovered. Then he came to Washington, where I was stationed and so we decided to get married.

KROh, how exciting.

RGIt was.

KROh, I'm sure -- I'm sure that must be really wonderful. 950 Tell me a little bit -- because I want to talk about your station in Washington, but tell me a little bit about Yeoman's School. What was that like?

RGWell --

KRThat's OK. Tell me what you remember.

RGI don't remember too much. I know I went down to Oklahoma A and M. I guess I took shorthand and typing. Whatever. As I said, as a result of my illness and being out of it for so long. Did I tell you they gave me the last rites at the church twice?

KRNo! Oh, no.

RGThey thought I was a goner.

KRAnd you're back at the convention now.

RGYes. And my husband and my children were -- This son of ours is so wonderful. He comes over and changes our bed and does a lot of things for us. Our daughter, she's great too, but she's very busy with her husband. He's a state Knights of Columbus Officer so they go alot and everything. We have four children -- two girls and two boys. And ten grandchildren. And we just had our first two great grandchildren. One in January and one in May.

KRHow exciting.

RGYes, it was. And, when we dock in -- where do we dock in?

KRGalveston.

RGIn Galveston, one of our daughters -- one of our daughters lives in Houston. She and her husband are going to pick us up and we're going to stay with them for three days and then we get to see our great-grandchildren. Because one lives in Oklahoma and one in Texas. So hopefully we'll be able to see thme.

KRYou think that they'll make sure that happens.

RGOh, I think it will.

KRI'm sure they will.

RGYes, right.

KRDo you remember -- do you remember taking a troop train, did you do that?

RGGosh, I don't know how I got down. I must have. I'm not a very good subject. (laughs)

KRNo, you're doing -- and remember, it's your story. I'm just trying to help you to remember anything you can.

RGYes, I understand.

KRSo you were stationed in Washington.

RGYes. the chief of Naval operations was the department that I was in.

KRSo what did you do?

RGShorthand and typing.

KRDo you -- it was the chief of naval operations?

RGThat was the name of the department, chief of naval operations.

KRSo what was your department in charge of? Do you remember?

RGGosh, I don't know. But I remember Captain Cleeves, the name. And Captain Dumont. And Commander Minners. And -- oh gosh.

KRIt's ok.

RGI'm sorry.

KRNo, don't apologize. I'm just asking because I'm curious.

RGI know, I know. This is your job.

KRSometimes when you start talking about things, you start remembering things, so it's OK. Things come out of nowhere.

RGThing arc - tcht-tcht.

KRWell,. we'll try to --

RGGet them reinstated.

KRExactly. Exactly. So you were in Washington. Do you remember anything about your time in Washington?

RGWhat about it. I know it was a great place to be. We had -- I don't know what we did. But it was -- we resided at WAVE Quarters B and that was in the Washington area. I don't know if it was Arlington or what, but it was right there. It was a great place to be.

KRYou had several roommates, I assume.

RGMmm-hmm. One of my roommates I think she was my maid of honor at the -- Rita Groom was her name, but I don't know where she is --

KROr what happened to her.

RGMmm. The other two, I do not know.

KR It must have been really exciting at that time to be in Washington.

RGOh, I thought it was great coming from a small town, you know and then coming to Washginton, DC and doing all that I was able to do. And then, of course when 00:14:00I went down to Oklahoma, that was another experience that was wonderful.

KRWell, yes, going from New York City to Oklahoma to Washginton. You got to see a lot of the country.

RGOh, yes. It was very nice.

KRDo you remember as the war ended -- do you remember anything. Do you remember V_E Day or VJ Day?

RGWell, you know, I think the war ended -- was it September 1st? No, that's when we got married, September 1st.

KRIt was in August, I think.

RGAugust?

KRYes.

RGI guess we were all very estatic about it, as you would be.

KRI know a lot of the women remember going out. My mom told me, she said, my father, well my father, her husband and I went out for drinks.

RGIs that right? See what we did, I do not remember. I'm sorry about that.

KRThat's alright. But you got married shortly thereafter.

RGSeptember 1st we were married.

KRWas it because the war was ending and you kind of felt like you could start your life again?

RGI don't know what it was. But we've been married 61 years now, I don't know where the years have gone. And then after -- do you want to know what we did after we got married?

KRAbsolutely.

RGWell, we went home to Duquoin and then my husband decided we'd go to college.

KRBoth of you?

RGBoth of us. So we went down to Southern Illinois University in Carbondale, which is not too far. We lived there. He got his degree, but I only had three years because our first child came along. And I never went back. (laughs)

KRYou went on the GI Bill?

RGOh, yes, oh yes.

KRTell me about the GI Bill. How did that help you guys out.

RGWell, we probably wouldn't have been able to do it had we not had the GI Bill. Because it's expen -- well, it wasn't as expensive then as it is now to go to 00:16:00college, but we were very poor. Our families were poor. My stepfather was a coal miner. He was a wonderful guy, but that's what he did. And Carl's father, he had passed away earlier and that was that.

KRDid your family -- did you just have the one sister.

RGOne sister.

KROK. Did the Depression affect your family much? You said you were poor.

RGVery poor, oh yes. Well, you know, coal miners don't make that much money. Now, after I got out of beauty school I worked for Mame's Beauty shop for two years. That was the beauty shop in our town. But, as I said, I decided I wanted to do something else. So I went to work for Bolan's Transfer and he was a transfer company in Dequoin.

KRWhen you went to college what did you study?

RGOh!

KRDid you have a major?

RGWell, I guess I did. It was probably English or something like that. He was in business.

KRHe was a business major?

RGAccounting, or whatever.

KRWhich makes sense.

RGOh, yes.

KRA good solid thing to do. Practical thing to do.

RGThat's correct.

KRWhat did he end up doing when he got out of college?

RGWell, when he got out of college, he got this position with -- he was an insurance adjuster. We went to Quincy, Illinois, where his first position was. Then from Quincy, he was transferred to Davenport, Iowa. And we were there -- I think our child, our second child was born in Davenport. Then from Davenport, we went to Jackson, Michigan and from Jackson we came to Dearborne.

KRThese were all job transfers that you did?

RGYes, yes.

KRDid you ever -- your job at that point was to be the wife and the mother.

RGYes, uh-huh.

KRWas that, when you were growing up what girls were supposed to do?

RGI suppose so, uh-huh. After two of our children left, were, you know, on their own, I went back to work.

KRYou did? What did you do?

RGI was a library clerk at the Centennial Library, the Mill Branch Library in Dearborne. And I worked there for 11 years. Plus two years of my service time, so I get a little pension for 13 years (laughs).

KRThat's nice.

RGAnd medical and the whole bit.

KRThat's a good thing.

RGOh, it is, oh my goodness yes. Because Carl has had two knee replacements. He's had bypass surgery.

KRAnd then you had back surgery.

RGOh my goodness yes. And you know about that.

KRYes.

RG The story behind that, it's terrible.

KROh, yes -- my husband has gone through four, so --

RGOh, really?

KRYes. He's not even 45 yet.

RGWas that back surgeries that he's been through?

KRDisectomies is what he's had done.

RGWhat?

KRDiscectomy?

RGWhat's that?

KRThey take a little piece of the -

RGThe spine?

KRNo, the disc is hitting on the spinal cord, so they take that out. But it doesn't stay out.

RGIt doesn't? It goes back?

KRYes it does. It's not a good thing.

RGOh, dear. And he's young.

KRYes. yes. Uhm -- did you ever -- well, looking back, do you think what the WAVES did was groundbreaking for women?

RGOh, I certainly think so, yes.

KRTell me why.

RGWell, it gave us a wider opportunities. We could do, we got a little braver 00:20:00and we could do (laughs) what we didn't think we'd be able to do that way back. So yes, I think.

KRDid you -- do you think that it -- well, what do your children do? What do all your kids do?

RGWell, Carlruth is a teacher. That's the older daughter. She just got a Master's Degree. Her two daughters are teachers so they graduated from college. And the young man, he's still struggling.

KRHow old is he?

RGHe must be 19 or 20.

KROK.

RGThat's the grandchild, you know.

KROK>

RGAnd then our son George, he was in the seminary for five years. Then he met this girl and it was all over. Well, I should tell you Carlruth has three children. Two girls and a boy. And then George married this wonderful gal and they both have their Master's degrees. The two sons have graduated -- well the 00:21:00one graduated from the University of Michigan. He's working in Denver. And then the other son is going to be a junior in the fall at the University of Michigan.

KRThese are your grandsons.

RGYes. And then, well, George, of course, he got his degree. And he and his wife have their Masters. His wife is a teacher and he works for the Capucian Ministry. It's a -- he is the warehouse manager of the Capucian. It's a charitable thing. They give food and clothing to poor people. And then Steven -- oh, George graduated from Eastern Michigan University. And so did our other son, Steven graduated from Eastern. And Steven has two girls. And he has a wonderful 00:22:00wife too. They're both college graduates. Their daughter, Vanessa, is a freshman at University of Arizona and Kaitlin is a freshman in high school. Then our daughter -- well, all of our children -- well --

KRYou have four, right?

RGFour, uh-huh. George and -- Carlruth, George and Maureen are dancers. They love to dance and took dancing lessons and were in productions. And George, he is a guitarist. He loves to play. And their sons do the same thing. In fact, before the one went away to Denver after he had gotten his degree, their friends 00:23:00would come over and they'd have this session in the basement, you know, and really have a good time. And then George has decided he wanted to take banjo -- that's our son -- decided -- he's kind of musical, I guess. He decided he wanted to take banjo lessons, banjo and whatever. Our son Stephen, he is, I can't tell you. He works for Jacobs something or other in Arizona. And his -- he graduated from Eastern also. I guess he's in the new -- he's an account -- not an accountant. I don't know what he does.

KROK.

RGHe has a very good position. His wife is also a university graduate and she 00:24:00has some kind of a part time job. And then the girls --

KRThey have the two girls?

RGTwo girls, right. Then our youngest who is Maureen, well she had three years of college and then got smart and decided she was going to move out. And never did finish, you know? She was actress and our dancer and the whole bit. They have three children. Michael is the big -- he's the one who is the Knights of Columbus state officer. He's on the ground, he's going up. He's on the second level. That takes him, I think, ten years to get to the top, but he's on the second rung. And they have three children. Matthew, who has his degree. Gosh, where did he get his -- oh, St. Mary's of Orchard Lake is where he got his degree. And he is, he's trying, he's working on his Master's. He's in Denver, 00:25:00too, now. He's working for the Denver water department. Mitchell, he is a freshman at Eastern Michigan, and then Marissa is a freshman at Henry Ford Community College.

KRIt sounds like, even with you and your husband -- I mean, you said your father was a coal miner.

RGNo, not my father. My stepfather.

KRYour stepfather.

RGMy father, he and his family owned a -- what was it, kind of a recreation parlor or something in Benton, Illinois, which was a few miles from Dequoin.

KRIt sounds like education became really important to you?

RGMmm-hmm.

KRWhy is that?

RGOh, I don't know. Carl's background. He wanted his children to have a college 00:26:00education. And I guess they had the desire to do it. So that's what they did.

KRDo you think that your experiences you had while you were in the WAVES and the opportunities you got with the GI Bill that that maybe helped make it seem important for you?

RGThat's probably true, surely. Mmm-hmm. Mmm-hmm. Because our parents, they didn't have any more than a high school education.

KRDid you, when you raised your kids was it -- I know when I was growing up, it wasn't "if you go to college" it was "when you go to college."

RGMmm-hmm.

KRHow was it when you raised your children?

RGGosh, I don't even remember. But I imagine that was always in the back of our minds, that they should get their education.

KRMmm-hmm. Something very important.

RGIn this day and age very important.

KRIt sounds like your family is very strong. Is your sister still alive?

RGOh, yes. She's a very feisty lady. She's 86 and she lives in Duqoin. She just 00:27:00sold her house and she moved into a senior housing area. I guess she has an apartment or whatever. And she just loves it there. She drives, of course, she drives everyplace. Since I've been ill, Carl has not allowed me to drive (laughs).

KR(laughs) That's probably good.

RGWell, yes.

KRShe didn't come on the cruise though?

RGNo, and I wanted her to come. She said, "I don't like the water." Can you believe that? (laughs)

KRShe was in the Navy!

RGI know it! That's what's so funny about it. (laughs)

KRHow funny!

RGI know. But she loves it where she is. Oh, and she said at this senior, there's so many activities. And everybody knows her because she's been a long-time resident. And, of course, it's better than living alone in her home, 00:28:00so she's happy there.

KRWhat did she do in the WAVES? Do you remember?

RGGosh, no, I really don't. I'm sorry. I'll have to ask her.

KRThat's OK. There's no worries about that at all.

RGWhere was she -- oh she was stationed in Seattle.

KROh.

RGThat's where she was. But I shall ask her. I talk to her every week, so I'll ask her.

KRYes. I'm just surprised the sisters didn't come together.

RGThat's right, that's right. I wanted her to, but no, she said she didn't like the water. So OK. I can't, since she's older I can't insist upon her (laughs) changing her mind.

KRYou can't boss her around so much.

RGNo I cannot. (laughs) That is correct.

KRHow did you get involved with WAVES National?

RGI guess through my sister. She's the one that, you know, enlisted first.

KRNo, I mean about the organization now.

RGOh, WAVES National. I get it. Well, I guess that was just the thing you do. When you hear about it you want to join everything. And, of course, I belong to a WAVE unit too. And we have, oh, quite a few members, which is wonderful. Jan Roy, who is here, she was the national president and now she's president of our unit. So that's pretty nice.

KROh, yeah. Oh yeah.

RGAnd I think there are four or five from our unit here. And then there's a unit in the upper peninsula and I met one of the ladies who is a member of 137 on the upper peninsula and, of course, I knew her. I just ran into her accidentally. And then the other unit, 101, not one of their members came. And we were 00:30:00surprised about that because they are very active.

KRWhat sort of projects do you work on with your unit?

RGNot much. We just have fun. (laughs)

KRWhat do you do at your meetings? Sit around and reminisce?

RGYes. We go out to lunch, you know they have it at a restaurant. And we just have a good time.

KRWhat is -- how is it being with people who've had these same experiences? Tell me about that. I'm here kind of as an outsider.

RGYes, I guess.

KRYou're in insider. So is it as an insider being a part of all of that?

RGOh, we look forward to it. We don't have -- we have a meeting every two months. The last meeting we had it took us seven hours -- my husband drives us -- to drive to the meetings. And then we're going to Alpena in October for our 00:31:00meeting. And then the next, the Christmas meeting will be in Brighton which is not too far from us, which will be a blessing.

KRIt sounds like you unit, your members are spread out.

RGYes. And then of course we have to, we're going to stay two nights when we go to Alpena because it's such a trip to go up there, but that's the way it is.

KRLike I say, it must be nice to have people who have the same experiences.

RGOh, it's just wonderful. We look forward to seeing each other and having a good time.

KRDid you ever do volunteer work when you were raising your kids and things like that?

RGI didn't have time.

KRNo?

RGI was too busy raising the children. My husband worked a lot, and it was my job to do housework.

KRTake your time.

RGYou know, I have a cough drop, maybe I should take it.

KRYeah. You get those tickles and it's not very fun.

RGYes. Excuse me, I'm really sorry about that.

KRThat's alright. Not a problem. What I'd like you to do for me, though, you have these two ribbons that are on your jacket. Can you tell me what those mean?

RGUhm, one is --

KRDo you want to do your cough drop first?

RGOK. One is the victory of World War II. Sometimes I don't know what the other one is. We were talking about it this morning. We were talking about it this morning. My husband would know. He knows everything.

KROne of the women was talking about she had one, and I don't recognize if this is it, but because she served in the North American.

RGCampaign. Maybe it is.

KRWhat about this patch here on the side of your arm?

RGOh, I was a yeoman.

KRSo what does the patch show?

RGIt shows the eagle. And that is the insignia for the yeoman, and then that's first class. You start out with third, second and first.

KRSo you made it all the way up to the top?

RGExcept, if I had stayed in a little bit longer I could have made chief probably. But that's alright.

KRWould you have wanted to stay in longer?

RGWell, you know, when you're in love and this and that and the other. And you don't want to be separated, because he was going to go to work and go back home. Here I'd be in Washington, you know. You don't get married and do that. You stay together.

KRLooking back, do you regret that you weren't able to stay in?

RGNo.

KRNo?

RGNot at all. We've had a wonderful life together.

KRHe seemed very caring upstairs and very concerned upstairs, so that's a good thing.

RGOh, yes.

KRYou want that.

RGThat is true, yes, very true.

KRCan you think of any stories from when you were there, any things that maybe unusual things you did when you were in the WAVES or any of that sort of thing?

RGYou know, with my memory the way it is, I know that I had some very wonderful superiors. Captain Klees and Captain DeVon. Commander Minners, and then of course there were other officers. Lieutenant Godwin. I do remember those names.

KRThey probably made a big impact on you.

RGThe did. They were wonderful.

KRThey probably made a big impact. I know today when I was watching the 00:35:00ceremonies you did and I saw the ceremony with the rose petals, that was just so beautiful.

RGOh, yes, wasn't that lovely?

KRCan you describe it for me? What you were doing?

RGWell, I don't know too much about it. The only thing is, I guess we were paying respect by throwing the rose petals in the ocean. That's the only thing I could -- they didn't really explain it.

KRIt was a nice ceremony, though.

RGIt was beautiful, yes. And that first prayer at the beginning, that was very impressive. And calling the names of all of the deceased, which was very nice.

KRMmm-hmm. Are you planning on going to San Diego?

RGIf I'm still here (laughs). I've been to quite a few. See I was in, what's that -- Anaheim, California in '92. And Cleveland, oh, but I didn't go to 00:36:00Philadelphia because that's when I, you know.

KRThat's when you were recovering from your surgery.

RGMmm-hmm. If I'm here, dearie, I'll be there (laughs).

KRWell, Ruth, I'd like to thank you, I'm going to stop the tape.