Interview with Pat Graves in her home in Florence, Oregon 7/10/07. Interviewer:Kathleen Ryan
KRWe are now recording. And I'm going to turn this up a little bit to make surewe get your voice and everything. And so we are talking with Pat Graves. And you were a WAVE during World War II.
PGYes, I was.
KRSo let's start out, and I'd actually like to start before World War II, and goback and I know you, you grew up in Connecticut?
KRTell me about your, tell me about your family and growing up.
PGWell, in Connecticut we lived in a very small little town and we had a lovelyhouse and it was right off the church property and I just had a delightful life there.
KRWas your father a pastor? You say it was right off the church property.
PGNo, no. He was not, it was just down from the church property.
PGBut I just remember that town so well. It was just a neat little town. Rightup across from the church was this beautiful park, we call it now, but we called it the green. And it was a lovely area with big houses all around it. But we 00:01:00went to private school. My mother and some other mothers and fathers decided they'd like to develop a school. So it was a private school. We just walked, or in the wintertime we skied to school, because it was about a mile and a half. A little bit uphill, but not all uphill.
KRSo you'd do some cross country skiing?
KRWhat town was it?
PGWatertown, Connecticut. And it had, it has a boy's prep school. So, of course,that was fun. Because when we went skating, we went to skating at all the little ponds around there, and of course the boys from the school were skating too. We had fun.
KRWas your, was the private school that the parents started, was that agirls-only school?
PGNo, it was mixed.00:02:00
KRIt was mixed. But still you had the boys in the private school too?
PGYes. It was from probably kindergarten to eighth.
KROK, OK. And what did your dad do?
PGMy dad worked, he was a salesman. A wonderful salesman. They developed all thecases for lipstick and powder and all kinds of things like that. Or the lids for cold cream jars, things like that. He was very successful. But then, in later years, he developed cancer. And just when he had gotten sick, the International Silver Company had wanted him to come work for them. And that was too bad, he couldn't go.
KRWas this while you were still a young girl that he developed cancer?
PGNo, he developed cancer when I was in the Navy.
KROK. Uhm, you, you -- I seem to remember you telling me your dad liked to00:03:00tinker and work with mechanical things.
PGYes. Well, he taught me all about mechanics and I think that was one of thethings that helped me pass that mechanical aptitude test we had to take in the Navy.
KRWhat sort of things did you do with your dad?
PGWorked on the car. Worked on tools if he was working with them and doing yardwork, yard things. And I, even up to today, I'm much better at yard work than keeping house (laughs).
KR(laughs) The place looks pretty nice. You should see my house! So you workedon cars, and the car, the yard, those sorts of things and helped him out?
KRWhy do you think you got selected for these duties with your dad? Why you?
PGWell, he didn't have any sons, and I was the oldest. And I think that's why.00:04:00And I was also interested and my sister wasn't, so that's why. I showed my interest to him.
KRAnd there were just the two of you?
KRThe two girls. Did you remember any of, your dad, your family being affectedby the Depression at all?
PGOh, yes. Absolutely.
KRTell me about that.
PGBut of course I didn't know it in those days. We just learned about it lateron. Well, it finally came to the year, after they lost their money, my mother's father was a very successful businessman. In Torrington, Connecticut. And my mother had quite a bit of money when they married. Later on, when they lost all that money in the crash, developed, you know a couple of years later, my mother took my sister and I, drove us to Florida where her aunt had a house. And we lived down there for two different years while they economized and shut their 00:05:00house up. Because my father could live with his mother. He was working in the city below the little town we lived in.
KRHe was in, what, New Haven?
KRYes, I know Waterbury. So there was, you remember there were definitely, therewere economic -- your dad lost his job?
PGOh, no. He still had, he kept his job. He was lucky.
KRBut it was just because --
PGIt was just, like, for instance, heating the house. They saved, because inthose days their house was heated by oil. And that was the reason. He bought a new -- oh, he bought a new car. And it was a Terraplane. And if you're not old enough, you don't remember a Terraplane. That was a Hudson. And it was the beginning of the automatic shift. And there was a little shift on the gear post, 00:06:00and mother still had to use a clutch, but it worked really well. I also remember he bought that car because it was heavy. It would hold the road.
KRAnd he bought this during the Depression? Or afterwards?
PGLater on when they started to build up again, I guess.
KROK. But you said they lost some money in the stock market crash, and then --and then they got back on their feet eventually.
KRDo you remember how old you were when things started to get back to normal?
PGNo, you know we really didn't notice it although we knew it was happening.
KRMmm-hmm. But it wasn't any particular --
PGIn those day it wasn't talking about things like that. To your family even.
KRSo you were just -- do you think they were trying to hide it from the childrenor was it just more that --
PGNo, no, no! No hiding! Just didn't do it.
KRSo it was more that Yankee stoicism sort of thing?
KRSo you went to -- where did you end up going? You went to the private schoolfor grammar school. Where did you end up going for high school?
PGI went to a prep school in Massachusetts. Andover, Massa -- it was calledAbbott Academy. It was across the street from Andover. That's still there. And it's now co-educational. Abbott went over to there, and they still use some of the buildings at Abbott because it's right across the street.
KRAt the time Abbott was girls only?
PGYes. Beautiful, beautiful school.
KRWhat was it like going to a girls' prep school?
PGI loved it. Very different. We had tiffin (sp) in the afternoon. Which is tea.We had to dress for dinner every night. No make-up whatsoever. And one day I thought, "Well, you know, I really don't --" My mother came to see me one holiday and said, "Triss are you alright? You look sort of pale." And so I thought, "I'll put a little" -- and pommade came in those days. And one of them 00:08:00was pink. And it was clear, so I thought, "Alright." I put it on, and I got sent upstairs to take it off. I didn't think it showed that much, but I got in trouble. (laughs).
KRWow. They were definitely just a hawk for the make-up.
PGThe same year Jap -- Japan bombed Pearl Harbor.
KRSo this was while you were still in high school.
KRHow old were you then?
PGOh, how old was I in -- Freshman -- Junior. I was a junior.
KRJunior. So you were like 17 or so? Something like that?
KRAnd what did you say your mom called you?
KRWhy did she call you Triss?
PGMy father and mother. Pa-TRISH.
PGTriss. A lot of my family called me Triss. But some people called me, I also00:09:00got named Pep for awhile there, because my initials were P-E-P.
KRWhat was your maiden name?
PGAnd it was Pierpont, not Pierpoint, Pierpont is a French word for stone bridge.
KRWhat was the reaction at school when you heard the bombing of Pearl Harbor?
PGEvery night we had dinner, a girl would be picked to give the news of the day,the headlines of the day. And that evening when that girl got up to announce the headlines of the day, because many of us had not heard radio or anything, because if we weren't busy with sports, we were busy doing homework. And this girl let out a shriek when she said that Japan had bombed Pearl Harbor, because 00:10:00she was from Japan. And was a lovely girl and it was such a shock to her.
KRWhat happened to her?
PGCan you imagine?
PGHer parents didn't call her. It was a shame. She stayed, oh, she stayed.
KRShe stayed? And there was never any --
PGOh, no! We never, I mean we girls were such good friends then. And we didn'tthink that deeply, I think, about certain things. But she was just fine.
KRThe reason I ask is because you know of the relocation camps and things thathappened here on the West Coast.
PGBut that was only one year that that happened. And she may not have come backthe next year, I can't remember.
KRSo she may have been gone by the time all of that started.
PGAnd also she was a senior I think, that's why.
KROh. That must have been a horrible, horrible, shock.
PGWe, we all, in the boarding school where we were, in the rooms, there was00:11:00always one counsellor that lived on the same floor or wing. And when it, when it all started, I guess we heard all the commotion because the girls all went into her room. You know, that's when you really wanted someone, and adult, to talk to. And we all went in to her room and listened to the radio.
KRDid things change at school afterwards?
PGNot that I can remember at all. But I didn't come back. I went into the Navythen, see?
KRYou went in the Navy right out --
PGNo. I must have been a little older. Because I went home -- working in adefense plant. See those are the years I can't figure out quite as well. See, because I had to be 19 when I signed up -- no, 20. 20, yeah, when I signed up. 00:12:00But I didn't go back, so I did something.
KRWere you maybe a senior that year?
PGNo, I wasn't.
KRYou were a junior. OK. So, was it -- did your family not want you to go back,did they want you to stay close, or was there another reason?
PGNo, this was still after losing their money. And my aunt was paying for my --my mother -- my mother mother's sister.
KRSo your great aunt.
KRWas paying for your tuition?
PGYes. And my sister's. She went to a different school.
KRSo why did that not continue?
PGI don't know. I can't remember if she got sick or what happened.
KROK. But you think it was unrelated to the war. It was just a coincidence thatyou --
PGYes, yes. That's when I went to work in a defense plant, which I reallyenjoyed. But I worked from 7:30 at night until 7:30 in the morning.
KRThat's a long shift.
PGWell, that's the way -- that was leaving, going on the bus down to the city00:13:00and coming back the same way.
KRMmm-hmm. No, it's just -- I'm not judging, it's just a long day. Why -- whatdefense plant did you work at?
PGScoville (sp?). Scoville Manufacturing.
KRAnd this was the plant that was manufacturing --
PGThe dies to make bombs. In other word the forms to make the bombs.
KRAnd you showed me a picture that you had just recently discovered that you haddrawn. Was that from --
PGThe lathe I used. That had a grinding wheel and we had to use a caliper tomeasure and things like that.
KRThis, for someone who really enjoyed mechanical things, this must have been areal kick for you.
PG Yes, that was wonderful. It really helped me pass that mechanical aptitudetest. Because it would give you a picture of all these gears and it would say, "Now, this one goes in this direction. What direction will this be going?" You 00:14:00had to figure out that.
KRAnd so by working with the machinery --
PGI knew how, how it would be. That helped, certainly. I didn't know anythingabout the gears and the machinery. That way I would have know all of that.
KRTell me a little bit about your job at the defense plant.
PGFor one thing, we would be standing up watching this, and also turning thewheel to bring the work to the wheel, back and forth. And sometimes, because that time of night was hard, we might think we're going to doze off. And somebody would see that happening, and it really is dangerous. So they would come up behind us and drop this metal box that we had metal casings in behind you to really startle you to wake up. So you wouldn't do it again. 00:15:00
KRDid that help?
PGIt certainly did.
KRWhat sort of work were you doing? Describe the job you were doing.
PGThat, the job was grinding all these forms with this grinding wheel. You hadto keep track of the grinding wheel. You had to be very careful with your hands. Measuring with that caliper was the hardest thing to do. Was measuring the width. You'd put this measurement inside this round globe that you were grinding and have to keep track of how you were grinding it. Don't let it go too far, because you can't put it back on .
KRAnd it had to be absolutely precise?
PGYes. So that all the parts would fit.
KROf course. Were there a lot of other women in the plant?
PGYes. There were all women. Well, there were a couple of men but many. And00:16:00those would of course be only the ones that were rejected. Oh and those day we got paid in cash. They came around with a big heavy cart, a guard and the man who would dole it out. I thought that was interesting. They would come and you would get paid. And another thing, what else is there -- it was just, uhm, I can't remember.
KRIt's OK. It will come back. It's no big deal.
KRSo it sounds like it was a pretty interesting job. It was an engaging job atleast for you.
PGYes, it really was. In fact -- and I went to work with another woman whoworked in the same plant that lived near me in the little town where I came from.
KRSo you would go to work together.
PGTogether. And it was good 'cause it was nighttime.
KRWas there ever a chance to work any other shifts, or did you want to work any00:17:00other shifts?
PGI can't remember. I don't really have any idea why I -- I guess I just thoughtthat was fine. Oh, the one thing that bothered me about working that shift, you woke up in the morning -- now you see that would be "OK, it's time for breakfast." A nice light meal. And you'd smell your mother cooking dinner for the rest of the family. And it didn't seem right. Sometimes it was uncomfortable because it wasn't what you were used to.
KRYeah, it could be really hard. Kind of turning your life upside down.
PGYes. But I guess I slept alright. Because I never remember objecting to it atall. I just took everything in stride I guess. Especially when I was waiting to 00:18:00be 21 to go in the Navy.
KRNow did you know when you were doing this that you wanted to be in the Navy?That you wanted to join the military.
PGNo. My father brought home a brochure taht he saw about the WAVES. He had beenin the Naval Reserve. He had never gone into any kind of military -- like the National Guard is. That kind of Navy. Becuase I have a picture of him in uniform. He brought that brochure home. When I saw you could get into the air port, air part of the Navy, you know training schools, I thought, "Oh, boy!" So, not knowing that you didn't always get into the parts you wanted to, the section. Because in boot camp, after you got out of boot camp, if they had enough girls in this department they were putting it into, you wouldn't get in 00:19:00it right away. One girl wanted to be an air control operator. And just wanted to be it so badly. Lovely girl, from the south. And they just sort of hesitated. Because they thought her southern accent might not be clear enough. But she was lucky and it was fine. They took her and she was so glad.
KRWas that the only way you remember hearing about it? From your dad bringinghome a brochure?
KRYou don't remember seeing anything anywhere else?
PGMmm-mmm. Well, people were talking about it all the time. Because this personwas going in. All the people we knew started going in. And that's what I think made us think about it.
KRSo you knew a lot of women who were enlisting in the military? Or men?
PGNo, men. Men.
KROK. Did your parents, you dad think it was a good thing for you to do?
PGSee, I keep thinking about that in this day. And I don't remember them saying00:20:00too much, but I guess they thought it was fine. Because I never remember any problems about it.
KRAnd you'd probably remember if there was a big argument or something.
KRAnd since you said he brought home the brochure, it almost seems as if he wastrying to kind of --
KRpush you that way.
PGwell, no, I think he was interested in it. That he thought, "Well--." Maybe hewas. I don't know. I have no idea.
KRDid your sister ever enlist?
PGNo. She didn't enlist. She was three years younger than I am. So it would havebeen a --
KRA long time until she went in. So tell me about signing up. What happened whenyou signed up? Went down to the recruiting station?
PGYes, I did. I cannot remember hardly a thing about it. I do remember filling,having to bring things, papers home to fill out. I don't know -- I guess I didn't have to have my parents sign because I was going to wait until I was 21. And they both talked about it, but I don't remember anything more. 00:21:00
KRWas it hard to leave your job? The job you had?
PGNo, no because it was just all I had on my mind at that last part.
KRJoining the Navy.
PGYes. Was going into the Navy.
KRWhy them? Why not one of the other branches?
PGBecause my father had been in the reserve.
KRAh! So there was that fam -- besides the plane there was that family connection.
PGI think that was the only reason unless I had some reason in the back of mymind, but I don't know what it was.
KRSo, you, did you take the train down to Hunter when you were accepted?
PGOh, yes I did.
KRWhat was that like?
PGI guess we had to meet somewhere and go there to the train and go down. But,that was -- A LOT of servicemen were on the trains in those days. No matter 00:22:00which direction. We rode on a train once, I think it might have been -- Oh! My mother was very ill while I was in the Navy and I had to fly back home. The first time I had ever flown. On American Airlines in a two engine plane. And I flew from Florida to New York and it got very rough. We were being served a meal. That was when only two people sat on either side of the plane. It got rough and, of course, we had a cup of coffee and we had some food. And all of a sudden the plane would drop and here was the coffee and here was the cup.
PGA lot of people stopped eating because they got sick. Not me. I just keptright on eating. (laughs). Remember, those were the days when the stewardesses had to be, they were stewardesses then, they had to be trained nurses?
KRI didn't realize they had to be trained nurses.00:23:00
PGYes, they had to be RNs.
PGI don't know what brought that up.
KRWell, we were talking about going down to Hunter College. So going down,taking the train down to Hunter.
PGYes. When they met us, they took us to Hunter and we went into these hugeapartment buildings. That's where we were billeted. And I had started, my sister was smoking a little bit, I think. I had started, thinking "Well--." All I had done was put it in my mouth and light it and puff. But I never, I hadn't inhaled yet. So when we got into the Navy, they said, "OK, the smoking light is lit, but the only place you can go is this one room." So I got down to that one room and opened the door, and took one look and smell -- it was so full of smoke and there were so many people in this one little room, that I thought, "Nah. I don't 00:24:00want to." And that was the end of my smoking. I never smoked.
KRThat was enough to break you of the habit.
PGYep. Absolutely worked.
KRHow many girls did you room with?
PGWe had five or six. We were in -- oh, we were in the sunken living room inbunk beds and nothing else in there. But it was apartment houses they were using. We had to go down three steps to get to our beds.
KRSo they had a little room, they took over the living room and that's wherethere were beds.
PGYes. Oh, uh-huh. And one of the bedrooms had another bunk, double bunk. So wehad six people in there. But the fun thing, the first time we had inspection in those apartments, oh my goodness, did we learn a lot! They had white gloves on, and they would run their fingers along, for instance, the top of the medicine 00:25:00cabinet in the bathroom. Things like that that we never thought about.
KRAnd what happened if it was dirty?
PGWe got a mark. I don't know what kind of mark. I think we were told what markwe got for the inspection for our apartment. That's the way they were doing it then.
KRAnd so you didn't want to get too many bad marks?
PGOh, no. After that I think we got much better marks!
KR(laughs) Was there anything else besides cleaning that was difficult at boot camp?
PGNo. Oh, yes! Going to the mess hall. I thought, "Oh, good!" I was hungry, youknow, the first time to go there and get in line. You hurry and you wait. You hurry to get in line, and they told you, "Alright, girls, you have 20 minutes. 00:26:00Go through the line and move it. And eat. And when you come out you are to put your trays, dunk your trays in the water in that barrel and set it on the counter and leave. Go out in front and line up." Well, that, I was floored. Because I don't eat very fast. (laughs) So I changed ways over time.
KRYeah, 20 minutes is -- to get your food, eat and clean up is really --
PGSee how I never forgot it?
KRYeah. You remember the difficult things. The difficult things. Those thingsstand out in our memory so much.
PGThe only other thing that I remember, it wasn't very pleasant. We had shotsone day and it just didn't set with me at all and I got quite sick. I was left in the bunk. Some medical person came to see me and gave me some kind of a 00:27:00medication. And said, "Well, don't worry. It will all be over in a little while" or "Get better." So I did have that.
KRWas it an allergic reaction or just disagreement?
PGJust disagreement. Or may a little reaction. Because I remember vaguely, butof course you can't really remember, but I was down for awhile. Usually nothing bothers me. If I have a cold or anything, I just go on and do things.
KRRight. You showed me in some of these pictures, in the scrapbook there was anewspaper article. Madame Chaing Kai-Chek came to visit while you were there?
PGYes she did. We had a big parade because she was coming. And we all lined upand we were so far back we didn't get to see her very close. But the girls who were lined up in uniform -- we weren't quite in uniform yet. But we were all 00:28:00lined up. The girls who were in uniform, she inspected. So it was quite interesting.
KRDid you often have dignitaries like that come and visit?
PGNot that I remember. But I do remember when I had time off and my parents camedown, I saw Frank Sinatra in person. I'll never forget that.
KRHow did you manage that?
PGWell, we could go off base on that day.
KRSo what did you --
PGMy mother was there on that day and she took me to the theater was.
KRAnd did you know he was going to be there, or did you?
PGI think we did know he was going to be there. Oh, it was something else. Weloved it. A lot of us were able to go. So I remember that. He was very young. Just starting.
KRDid he perform?
PGYes, he performed.
KRSo you went to see him like singing --
PGYes. It was just singing on stage with an orchestra.00:29:00
PGIt may have been something else but I can't remember. Oh, yes it was reallyfun. That was the only thing I can remember that was -- Oh! Later on, while I was in the squadron, the coarsairs squadron, we had a few actors come through as pilots learning how to fly.
PGOne of them was, you would ask me that now -- uhm -- Van Hefflen (sp?)! No,not Van Hefflen. Van something. There was another one.
KRAll I'm thinking of is the shirt manufacturer.
PGAnd then we had Englishmen. We had Englishmen, Marines and Navy taht we wereteaching to fly the fighter airplanes. The Coarsairs. And those were the planes that the wings folded because they were to go on the carriers. And they would 00:30:00fit, more would fit on the carrier with the wings folding like that. And the girls in that squadron were mostly, well, some of them would work in the office. I was, some of them were aviation machinists' mates, which I was, and we had a training plane. The SNJ that taught the student how to fly by instrument. The student sat in back and the instructor sat in front. It was a two-seater plane. And then when they would get up in the air, the student would pull this canvas cover up over his head so he couldn't see out. And he would learn to fly by instrument.
KRSo you're not relying on what's going on on the ground or anything.
PGWell the pilot's taking care of that. Up in front. The teacher. And I wastaken up once. One of the teachers asked me if I'd like to go up. A couple of 00:31:00the other girls had gone up. And I said, "Yes, I'd love to. Hhhh!" And I'd never been in a small plane. And he wanted to show off. And so I really had -- I loved it when we were just flying along, through the clouds and everything. But he wanted to loop and tailspin or whatever. And it was a little much (laughs). I got a little bit panicky.
KRI would think so! Especially your first time up there.
PGA little bit panicky.
KRYeah, no kidding.
PGBut it was fun. It really was fun doing it. When you think about itafterwards, it's wonderful.
KRWhen you don't have to worry about being upside down.
PGTo go up in your own plane is really something to do.
KROh yeah, oh yeah. Did you get a chance to do it ever again after that?
KRIt was just an unusual.
PGYou had to get permission and all that. I did go in the hangar when -- in the00:32:00Navy they keep track of how many hours is on an engine. And when it came to that amount of hours it went in the hangar to get overhauled. I went in the hangar with my plane during that and helped they mechanics. They would tell me different things to help them with.
KRYou, you mentioned, a little bit having to take an aptitude test. At Hunterdid you have to take the aptitude test or was this before.
PGNo, this was before. This was when I was working, before I went to work, Iguess. I don't remember exactly where the aptitude test was, but I guess it might have been Scoville and the Navy. I may have taken two, that's why I remember them.
KRThe idea was to find out if you'd be ok to be a machinist's mate?
PGYes. They would only pick the girls who did well on that test, who would be amachinist of any kind. 00:33:00
KRDo you remember being worried, concerned that you wouldn't pass? Or -- becausethis is something you really wanted to do.
PGYes, I guess we did. Don't forget that WAVES are entirely different, weredifferent, from what the women sailors are now. Because we were only into certain things that could help relieve a man from doing that job. And, so that's why it was limited to how many they could put in aviation machinist's mate school and how many they could put in things like that.
KRWell, I know. And I've talked to women who had things they wanted to do, thatthey weren't able to do. Because those jobs just weren't available when they were there. Margaret's one of them. She has all sorts of things she wishes she had done, you know, and so I was just curious if you thought -- 00:34:00
PGYeah, we wished we could go on a carrier.
KRAh, well of course! But I just wondered if you had any backup plans. If youcouldn't do this, maybe you could do --
PGNo. We didn't htink about that at all. All of a sudden we were hit with,because we just htought they put us, anything. They said, "OK, what would you like to do?" And then it was fun, when school was over, to find out where they were going to send. Luckily, I knew about Florida.
KRMmm-hmm. Tell me about school. You got selected to go to school --
PGOK. The first school, the first place we were sent after, I was sent, afterboot camp, Hunter College, we were went to Memphis, Tennessee. That's where the aviation machinists' mate school started. We were going to school there, and we 00:35:00were just starting to learn blinker. We learned semiphore, with the flags, but when we started to learn blinker, all of a sudden they took us off of blinker. Because we weren't going to be using them and they could push us along faster, I guess. But one day they said, "Well, we" -- they came to the girls' barracks and said we were all going to be sent to Norman, Oklahoma. And they told us why. They were bringing in the black men. The black sailors. And women couldn't be on the base with the black sailors. So we were sent, we were put on a train and we were handed a box lunch and said that we would get there soon on the train. Well, it turned out hat was the only food we got. And so the rest of the way we 00:36:00went on the train -- it would start every so often in these small towns. And we would lean out the windows or go to the doors and hand these kids money to go buy us food.
KRYou couldn't get off the train?
PGNo. We couldn't get off the train. And believe or not most days the kids wentand got the food, brought it back to us. I don't know, I hope we tipped 'em, or did something. But that, they did it for everybody. We never had any complaints. Isn't that something? Of course, this was going out west, where a lot of towns were awfully small. This was a big thing for trains to stop. I guess, theere, exactly.
KRWere you ever concerned -- I mean,w hen you heard you were leaveing the basein Tennessee because they were bringing int he black sailors, did that seem odd to you? Or was that just the way things were?
PGI suppose in those days it was just the way things were. See this is '40s and00:37:00especially in the south.
KRYes, there was a lot of -- had you ever experienced segregation before?
PGNo. Because we had, my mother had a luandress and a cook taht were black forawhile. And Drady (sp?) was the one that taught us all this wonderful music. She played piano beautifully and taught us songs. Both the women we had, they, you know, we didn't think anything about it. So, yes, we were surprised. What, you know, when the WAVES started, they really had hardly anything. They did have the uniform and the funky looking had. Which they don't ahve anymore. Thank goodness! But they, what was I going to say -- Oh! We had to wear, when we went to the aviation machinists mate school, we wore the chambray shirts the boys 00:38:00were wearing, the boys jeans, and their black shoes. I was wearing men's black shoes. It was, taht's the way we got along and it seemed to work out alright. And when we were into aviation where there was a lot of props taking off up and down the runways and things like that, we had to wear turbans. Taht's what we wore on our heads.
KRWhat was the logic of the turban?
PGBecause of our hair. Being blown and flown in our face. We wanted to be neat.Oh, and not get in the machines. No hair in the machines. Because the sailors wore their hats all the time.
KRAnd so they didn't make you wear the hats. Instead you wore the turbans.
PGYes. They weren't too popular, but we managed.00:39:00
KRWhat didn't you like about them?
PGThey got hot. And especially in the summertime. This was in Florida, so wereally got hot.
KRTell me a little bit about -- you moved to school in Oklahoma. Did thingschange there or was it pretty much the same old sort of instruction you had in Tennessee?
PGNo, it was. We got different classes. In Norman, Oklahoma, they had a regularplane there. They would send you -- they would say, "You have to go down in the nose of this plane and put a cotter (sp?) scren in and fix it the way it should be. Way down in there you will see a place where you can put it." So, you were to remember you had the tools to do this, and be sure you had a cotter, and things like that. A couple of girls got way down int there and and, "Oh, I don't have!" And those girls had to climb all the way back out. And this was a very 00:40:00small area where you had to get to and had to come out of. And it was fun to see that. But they ahd to come out themselves. Nobody handed them anything.
KRDid you every have any problems?
PGNo. I should say that. Maybe I had some but I don't remember. that would stickin my mind.
KRRight. Where were you hoping to get stationed?
PGI don't know if I had any idea of any. Of course, I knew about Florida. Idon't know -- I don't think I knew that base was there. Because I was further south in Florida when I was a young girl and we stayed and lived there. This was Jacksonville. It was a big, big airfield. Because they had more than one squadron that was teaching the students. Oh, and those students also had ground school That's what we called it. Because, of course, air sschool was the par taht we ttaught. And the ground school, there were classes on the inside rim of 00:41:00the hangars. They were great big hangars. And they had classrooms all the way around the end of it. ON the sides.
KRSo they were leanring things in addition.
PGAnd the saying went that the Americans were better at the actual flying thanground school, and the English were better at ground school than flying. (laughs) So, taht was passed along.
KRAnd that's how it was? Americans did better for whatever reason on flying?
PGYes. And it really was, I'm sure. Becuase everybody knew how they did things.The mechanics of each airplane knew all the pilots taht were flying in their plane. They knew how the acted. The knew how they left things. And how they 00:42:00behaved and so forth.
KRNow the picture I've seen is of you out on the runway with the semiphores.
KRBut did you also work to keep the mechanics, Keep the engines running.
PGOh, yes. Thaat was just a separate jobs that we had. Certain days a weekbecause a few people took turns. We were out there in the middle of, not the middle, but way down on one end where a runway would start, they woudl be landing. And there was nothing out there. We would be out there for four hours. Nothing, we didn't have bottles of water in those days. Or anyting. We would just manage.
KRHow did you manage to --
PGMaybe it was two hours.
KRHow did you manage to do that in the summer, with the humidity and everything.It seems like you would pass out.
PGWell, I don't remember doing that. Maybe it was two hours at a time with abreak, but htere we were. We were out there by ourselves. And when that -- I was 00:43:00-- this did happen. I told this story before. We, our flags were to say "R" for "roger" if we saw a plane coming in. If we saw the landing gear was down, and everything looked OK, we would tell "roger." We were out there because their radios could go out. And then the control tower couldn't tell them what was wrong or what to do. So we were the only ones. So one day, I didn't really notice it right away, but his landing gear was down and he finally turned too sharply. And the sad thing is he crashed right in front of me. Very close to where I was running the other way when he was coming down. And he was somebody I knew and it was very hard to do that.
KRAnd you could tell as the plane was coming in that this pilot was not going to00:44:00make it.
KRWas that a common occurance? Did guys often --
PGNo, no. It was very unusual. We did not have -- the more common one was groundlooping. And that means when you come in, and you can't keep straight. And your wing -- when you're on the ground - and your wing scrapes along the ground when you're turning or something. And that would hurt a plane. That would be -- they would think that was pretty silly or pretty dumb of the guy because you should know better than to let the tip of it, of the wing, hit the ground.
KRYes. Well, it would seem like that would be something that you wouldn't wantto happen, but still ---
KRAnd it could be -- depending upon how fast you're going it could be somethingvery dangerous.
PG Yes. Yes exactly. A ground loop can cause the plane to flip over, or the00:45:00propeller to hit the ground.
KRYeah. That would be a really bad thing.
KRYou said it was really hot there. So what did you do to kind of?
PGWell, when we had nothing to do at the time, for instance, if the planes wereall out and we did clean up and everything, we'd go get a watermelon and we'd put it in the box. Somebody would run down to the store and get a watermelon. Put it in the box and take a fire extinguisher and fill the box up with all that wonderful foam. Ah-hem! That probably we shouldn't have been using, but we thought it was some of our tax money. And they would get cold very quickly.
KRI would think so. I would think so.
PGAnd we really -- it was fun to have things like that to do.
KRDid the pilots who were there in training, and the guys who were there in00:46:00training, did you develop, did they start to hang out with the WAVES? Was there some sort of a collegial relationship between them?
PGNo, not really. Because they would go to school and then they would leave. Notmuch. I also worked in the line shack, which was the room where there was the big board. And it gave all the listings of all the planes. And that's where we girls could keep check of what planes were in what condition, ready to flly. And we'd assign them a plane. That was another job we did when we were off. It was just scheduled so it would work, we would have enough WAVES to do that. Everyone working on a plane.
KRDid you find that -- did you actually replace somebody? Did you ever meet theperson you were replacing?
PGNo. We can't, we don't know that at all. Because we were all WAVES and so.00:47:00
KRNo, I'm just wondering. Because some of the women I'm talking to actuallyremember meeting the guy they replaced.
KRWas there any resentment on the base towards you doing those sorts of jobs?
PGI don't know. There probably, I don't know that it was resentment, but theydidn't want to talk to you at first. And just ignore you. And wouldn't help you. The sailors, I'm saying. They didn't want to help you, that kind of thing.
KRWhy didn't they want to help you?
PGI guess they didn't like the women coming in right at the beginning. I'm surethey didn't. Just because it was a man's world, ground, where you should be.
KRDid you enlist in '43 or '44?
KR'43. Yeah. And when is your birthday?
PGAnd I was in three and a half years.00:48:00
KRAnd you spent all of your time in Florida?
PGNo. Well, Hunter College. Memphis, Tennessee. Norman, Oklahoma. Which wasn'tthat long either. And then Jacksonville, and yes, that's where I spent the rest of my --
KRThe rest of your time.
PGYes. We were discharged from Jacksonville.
KRDo you remember, did you live in a barracks there too, or did you have apartments?
PGNo, we had barracks.
KRAnd what --
PGThere were four in a little room.
KRWhat was that like?
PGIt was, oh I was lucky to have such good roommates. Big laundry rooms. Weeventually got our own ice cream country in a little store in another barracks. We could, oh that was when I thought that was something else. I hadn't been away from home for really very long I guess. And that was very strict. And here I could go buy any kind of ice cream or anything I wanted. 00:49:00
KRThat's pretty exciting.
PGI'd go and buy one thing and take the other one home. (laughs). Or to the barracks.
KRSo you'd have a spare. Did you eat with the other sailors or did you eat -
PGNo. Girls had their own mess halls. The ladies and the women. Because therewere all kinds of women by then. Different ages. Doing different jobs.
KRThere were a lot of you down there.
PGOh, yes. I dont' remember how many but I found out< I just met a WAVE that wason the other side of the base doing something else. Taht didn't have anything to do with actual air, the air control.
KRI've met a number of women who served down in Jacksonville. AT the air stationdown there.
KRYes, I've met a number of them. And I'll say, "Do you know so-and-so?" "No, no."
PGA big base -- too many -- it was huge. It was really big.
KRIt sounds like it was enormous. Enormous, enormous. Did you go into, you were00:50:00located a little ways off of town, weren't you?
KRNo, the base itself.
PGOh yes. It was way out by itself.
KRDid you ever go into town.
PGOh, yes, We went into Jacksonville all the time. The Navy had wonderful bigbus service. You usually didn't sit down in the buses because they were made to stand and hold on. But you didn't have a very long trip.
KRHow long was it?
PGOh, I can't remember. It could have been 45 minutes, you know.
KRBut it didn't seem that long.
PGNo, you're standing there talking, chatting, you know? You're off the base andyou don't think about that.
KRDid you do a lot of socializing with men while you were there?
PGNo, I didn't. But I did meet the man I eventually married. And I went intothat -- my sister was very much into boyfriends and things but I didn't have any. I had one, maybe I liked, I liked this guy but didn't really know him or 00:51:00associate. And so I went down there and just, knew a lot of guys but didn't go out hardly at all. And then I met someone one day and -- but we didn't get married until we were both out of the Navy because that was the way it was. We hadn't known each other that long, you see, I didn't meet him when I first went into the Navy. He was from California and I was from Connecticut. So that was sort of a big jump.
KRYou ended up moving to California.
PGYes, eventually I did. But I was married in Connecticut. He and his best man,who was also on the same base as him, paid the Chief a fifth of Jack Daniels to bribe him so they could get off together to be in the wedding. 00:52:00
PGAnd I said, "Send for your skates, your ice skates" because we always had --oh, I didn't tell you we got married in February. We always had ice everywhere. And virgin ice, clear beautiful. On the lakes, everywhere. Well, of course, this was the year when they wasn't any ice when they were there. Except the night we left from church. Then it was raining and freezing. Dick learned to put on chains right away.
KROh and that weather there, when it's like that, that freezey, rainy sleetystuff. It's just ugly.
PGThe slush. And it's dirty.
KRIt's just ugly. How did you guys meet?
PGOK, let's see. I met him -- he was in the hangar. And I just happened to meethim and he asked me once to go out. The first time we ever went out was New Year's Eve. We went to a movie. That was it. Had dinner and went back to the 00:53:00abse and then saw each other off and on.
PGBut it was, just it. Meeting people, you know, in the hangar. That's how it happened.
KRAnd he had been, had he served overseas.
PGNo. He was just in the Navy. A lot of his friends were in the Navy the sametime he was.
KRUh-hu. Lucky that he didn't get to go overseas.
PGI know. I'm trying to think how he didn't go there. I can't remember the details.
PGHe had osteomylitas when he was a little boy. That's where the bone marrowgets infected somehow or other. And he had that taken care of and he had to get all these doctors' permissions and everything to get to the Navy. He had to get 00:54:00himself into the Navy because they didn't want to take him. He had this scar, it was a pretty deep scar. You know how they cured it in those days? They put those maggots into there. Do you remember that they did that?
KRNo, I never knew that they did that.
PGFor infected skin and things.
PGThey did a beautiful job. He just barely limps. Well, he doesn't really limp,he just drags it a little. Got okayed and was just fine. Still is.
KRUhm. So where were you -- you were still in Florida when the war started toend, when it looked like the war was wrap, was finishing, when there was victory in Europe and victory in Japan. You were in Florida all that time? As things started to wrap down. 00:55:00
PG No. I think we were in Florida before I went into Abbott. But I thought I wasin Florida in '38.
KRNo, I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. During the War.
KRWhen you were in Florida during the war. And as things were wrapping down.
PGYes. We stayed at the hangar the whole time. We -- I -- but we ended up,because we didn't have much to do with the planes, working in the office. And in those days, remember, they wanted 8 copies. And it was all with carbon. If you made a mistake, you had to go through those copies and erase it. We didn't White-Out. Put a piece of white paper in there so you could erase it and it wouldn't go through to the other carbons.
KROh, gosh, that would be just awful.
PGI didn't like being a yeoman very well.00:56:00
KRHow long did you do that for?
PGOh, a very short time. Just a couple of weeks or something.
KRDid you want to leave the service?
PGYeah, I guess I did. Yeah, I guess I was glad to get home. Because I got outand I didn't know when he was going to get out and we were planning to get married.
KRSo you were already kind of ready to move on to your next point --
PGIn life. In life. So, I can't remember about that going home and everything.Getting out. Mustering out. Because there, of course, was some kind of a parade thing for that too. We did a certain amount of WAVES and sailors at a time.
KRNow we didn't talk about, and I seem to remember, before we get any furtheron, I seem to remember you telling me -- you were actually in a parade, right? 00:57:00
PGOh, the Navy has an anniversary, of course, every year when the Navy started.Yeah. we had parades. Every year we had parades. And every squadron, or who else, every group of people like maybe the administration department or so forth, would make a float. And the year (laughs) the year that our squadron made, I thought it was a pretty good idea, float. They built this stand taht looked like a cake with many layers. And at the top of the layers, the top layer, they decided they wanted to pick so many girls to look like candles in the cake. Ohhh! (laughs) And they made these, and the hats were pretty clever and they went on the top. I always wondered why they picked me and they picked five or six other girls, because there were a lot of girls in the squadron. So 00:58:00we were in a parade. (5809) I'll never forget that either.
KRAnd you never found out why they selected -- did you volunteer to do this?
PGOh, no no no no no. They just told you.
KRHow funny. And you never found out how it came to be you.
PGNope. Or how they picked --
KRHow they picked you. You were also, though, you've also showed me picturesfrom your hometown newspaper. There's the photograph.
PGYes. One day the Navy came out to take my picture on the runway. And Ithought, "Oh, they're just going to use that to put in one of their books" that they're teaching with. Because they didn't tell me, they didn't say anything. And the next thing I knew my mother called me and told me it was in the, it was a rotogravure in the Sunday paper. And that was, the rotogravure many many years ago in the paper, was the paper, the section that had all the pictures in it. 00:59:00And it was brown and white. It was always printed in a different color. And I was -- it was in there. But it said at the bottom of the picture that it was an official Navy picture. And I was floored. I was -- I thought that was pretty good too. (laughs).
KROh, yeah. Did you ever hear from any people from your town? Did anyone besidesyour mom get in touch with you?
PGOh, they may have. They may have. Especially when I went home for -- everyonce in a while we had time off. Leave.
KRWhat was it like when you went home on leave?
PGOh, They, of course, jsut thought it was, they'd be so thoughtful to you. AndI'd see the flags. In those they had flags in the window with stars on them. IF you had one child,you had one star, if you had two you had two. Things like 01:00:00that. So I'd notice that and say, "Oh, your son is in." Things like that.
KRMmm-hmm. Did people seem to treat you, did they treat you well?
PGVery well. Yes. Very nice, very thoughtful.
KRDo you think that it was, did it seem to you -- what was the public reactionto the WAVES? Was there acceptance, or?
PGYes, there was sort of acceptance. They would say, "Oh, there are women innow?" A lot of them would say. Because they didn't know what a WAVE was. And we would tell them that we were replacing jobs that men could do a better job in other jobs.
PGYeah, it was very nice. The attitude was so different than it was years laterin Vietnam or in things like that.
KRWhen people saw if, if they saw you in your uniform, what would on thestreets, what would their -- 01:01:00
PGYou know, they'd yell at you right away, even if they didn't know your name. Iforget what the greeting would be, but it would be -- you felt, I felt sort of shy, whatever. (laughs). 'Cause I wasn't used to anything like that. 'Cause when you're in the Navy, you're just one of a bunch. (laughs)
KRYeah. And when you get outside, when you're not one of the bunch is when youstand out.
KRHow long after you left did you and your husband get married?
PGThe next year, or the end of that year that we got out.
KRWhen did you leave? Did you leave in '45 or '46?
PG'46. And I think it was the end of that year, because, see, I was only in 3and a half. And I know we got married in '46. 01:02:00
PGAnd, oh boy, what a day. For the wedding, because it was so wet and --
KRAnd cold --
PGand slushy. But people came. They weren't -- you know you always put a whiterunner up the middle of the church? They had covered it with something until the bride was to go up it and then they uncovered it. So it would keep the white clean. Anyway, so we had fun. We had our honeymoon in New York City. Luckily the trains were running, of course. But we had to drive to another town because Waterbury wasn't that big a center to have a lot of trains. So to get a train after the wedding, we -- So that was.
KRAnd so did you settle immediately in Connecticut, or did you move to California?01:03:00
PGNo, we went to California right away and we lived with his mother for a little while.
KRWhere -- what town?
PGSan Gabriel, California, which is right close to Pasadena.
KRRight, right. And what did he end up doing, because he was not --
PGHe was a photographer. He became a photographer. He worked for USC in thephotography department for quite a few years. Then we ended up with our own photography studio. And I worked and helped for awhile, doing different things. I ended up retouching pictures for him. Don't forget, this day and age -- for a long time we had it, it was only black and white. Then color came out while he still had the studio. And that was fun. Seeing how it doing.
KRDid he learn photography in the Navy or was this something he had knownbeforehand, or do you remember?
PGOh! I know! Do you remember the GI Bill of Rights? He used that to go to the01:04:00photography, oh, in Hollywood and I'm trying to tell you the name of it. Art Center School, I think it was called. And Ansel Adams was a teacher and he had him.
PGYeah. Now that I know who Ansel Adams is, now.
KRAt the time you --
PGBecause then he was pretty young. He and his buddy, he had a friend he cameout of the service with, they both went to that school. And they both became photographers. Michael ended up with a photography studio while Ray did other things, different things. And had a photography studio for quite a few years.
KRAnd how many kids did you have.
PGTwo. No, I've got three, what am I saying? I've got three. (laughs) I'mthinking of me and my sister.
KR(laughing) No, that's OK.
PGNow we're up the generations now.01:05:00
KRAnd what did they end up doing with their lives?
PGOh, I'm very proud. They're just -- they started off differently, but rightnow -- Tony has retired from the phone company and works here at Mailboxes Etc. only it's not that anymore. It's something different.
KRAnd this is your daughter.
PGAnd that's my daughter. She was my first born. Then John, my second born, isnow working for a sound company. He's a sound technician and Michael is a lighting technician. Michael learned his lighting technician -- he's the youngest -- in high school when he was working for the stage crew. I mean, that was his basics for it. And then he went on to do -- he's got a fabulous resum. He's worked for years now with all these very well-known bands. From hard, I 01:06:00mean from heavy metal on up through everything. And now he has a wonderful job. In, in California he was working for a medical supply company that gave supplies for the feeding of patients that had to be fed. All the equipment plus all the food. And it's very well known and does very well. It was a very small company. But now he works for the House of Blues. Do you know that?
KRMmm-hmm. And this is where he's in --
PGIn Chicago. And, oh, it's wonderful. He invited all of us, and we went therenot too long ago, we went to see him in Chicago. There were five of us who came from Oregon and California to see him. We came, we went to surprise the mother-to-be in her baby shower. And he invited us, Michael invited us to what is called the gospel brunch at the House of Blues. They have it every Sunday 01:07:00morning, two different shows. And they have the most wonderful food. They have three huge buffet lines. Different food in each line, almost. So you go and help yourself, then you got and sit at the tables, which are down on the floor where you usually sit in front of the stage. And out comes the gospel luncheon music and performance and everything. They get the audience into it too, and it's really, it was really fun.
KROh how fun.
PGAnybody, from any walk of live, loved it, just loved it.
KRHow fun. Now this is your son who is the lighting technician, right?
KRHe's at the House of Blues.
KRSo where is your middle son, your sound technician son?
PGI hate to tell you, I don't have any more business cards and I cannot remember01:08:00the name of the company. But, it's in Orange County and it's a big sound company. And he travels all over the United States including Europe to these different places selling all this equipment. And one of the biggest -- now that we have a casino here, one of the biggest, or the biggest, Indian casino in the United States is in Connecticut, and he's been there many many times.
KRMohegan Sun. Or is it Foxwoods? I forget. But I know the --
PGOh you do?
PGBut I can't remember the name of it. I almost thought I should, but I can't.
KRIt's one of those two. I can't remember which one -- I think it's Mohegan Sun --
PGThey've since sold a lot of sign equipment to them. I was trying to tell himout here when this one was being built. But they only have certain , I mean, he 01:09:00isn't a salesmen and it has to be done that way. He was out here though, a couple of years ago we went into Eugene and visiting him. They were playing, I forgot to say -- not with this company, but before he went with this company he was traveling with Eddie Money. For years, quite awhile. My other son, Michael, went all over -- he took a trip around the world with one of the trips he took. He was with Jane's Addiction then. And Toad the Wet Sprocket. He worked with, uh, Metallica for a little, not very long. But anyhow -- ooh the Goo Goo Dolls. He has a wonderful plaque from the Goo Goo Dolls. And so he did all, that's what 01:10:00he did then. But John was out here once a long time ago and we went to see him. And Michael came out just two years ago I guess. You know the winery just off of 126?
PGHave you ever been there?
KRI haven't but my husband's been --
PGIt's nice. Lovely --
KRHe says it has a really nice place to see mus --
PGYes. To sit there under those trees. You bring your own blanket and then haveeverything else that is very well done. Even though it's outside, that's what I'm trying to say. And we went and listened to Michael. He was back with, uhm, Jane's Addiction -- I can't remember which band it was, but they had come back together again just to do the summer.
KRJust to do small tours. Some of them --
PGOf course, all the new were there, and so it was wonderful. It was between him01:11:00getting the new job in Chicago, and so he was just getting in.
KRNow you and your husband -- I'm assuming you and your husband split up?
PGWe were divorced many years ago. But very friendly. He is now married andlives in Arizona. No, not Arizona, Utah. Hurricane Utah. It's very near what's that big park?
PGNo -- yeah Zion. Zion.
KRIt's pretty down there. Really pretty down there. If you were --
PGBecause it's just outside of St. George.
KRRight. And you, you said you were working with him in the business?
KRAnd did you ever do any other sort of work? Or want to do any sort of workoutside the house?
PGOh, yes. When we first got there thefirst job I had was working in a day carecenter. Because I had done that when I was a teenager. I loved children and I 01:12:00loved to take care of them and everything. So I did that for a couple of years, a couple of three, four years. And then -- what did I do -- where have I been working for so long? I can't even tell you. I have to think about it. Then after that I don't know what I got into that quickly -- and worked there from how many years. Then I retired -- oh! From the banking! I've been in banking. I had been in banking for 14 years. And retired. And then I got into temporary, this temporary agency. I don't know if I was just lucky, but I got into wonderful jobs where I could stay with them for quite awhile. One of them was the 01:13:00probation office in California and Orange -- I forget where it was. Right outside of town. Vista, California, which is right outside of Oceanside. Just north of San Diego. And I worked there for quite awhile. They had 42 probation officers and it was quite something. That was temporary work, too, and I was there that long.
KRWell sometimes you can get those jobs --
PGThe county, because the county wouldn't have enough money for a full-timeemployee, so they would hire a part-time. I did that for quite awhile.
KRThen moved up here?
PGThen -- my son, my youngest son lived with me for quite awhile, for fourteenyears because he was gone all the time. He was only home about six months out of the year. And so when I sold my house, we split, because he helped support me then and in later years, and we sold -- I sold the house to them because he was 01:14:00about to get married. John was already married and living in Orange County. And Tony was living up here. He, we split the money from the house and I moved up here because Tony was up here, and it's just worked out beautifully. I love this place that I'm --
PGAnd we have a wonderful women's armed forces group that we get together. And Ireally enjoy that.
KRYes, that's how I met you. Through Margaret and the group.
PGAbsolutely. Margaret has done wonders for this group. She's just -- she's awonderful organizer.
KROh, I know. She's quite a dynamo at doing that sort of thing.
KRWould -- now, looking back at there life, is there something you would have01:15:00done -- would you have liked to be able to stay in the Navy, or?
PGNo, but I'll tell you what I would have liked -- a lot of us did that weshouldn't have. When we got insurance in the Navy we should have kept it. It was a wonderful thing in those days, of course. And I didn't keep it. And so that was too bad. But I did get some wonderful, some good insurance from the bank. The back was wonderful.
KRJust because the policy --
PGThe bank I was with was wonderful to employees.
KRAnd the government -- you could have held on when you left.
PGYes, you could keep it.
KRFrom the Navy too?
KRAnd you just opted not to when you left.
KRWould you have -- could you have joined --
PGI could have gone into the reserve, too, but I didn't do that.
KRDo you wise you had?
PG I don't know. After having a family, you know how that is. Enjoying thechildren. I guess not. I'm glad other people do. I think it's -- it's what they 01:16:00like, what they wnat to do.
KRRight, right, right. Is there anything else you'd like to add, or anythingthat you think we need to cover.
PGI don't really think so.
PGIt's just that it was a wonderful time in my life. I really enjoyed it. The --getting out of boot camp -- being discharged was fun. I didn't have to tell you about that. We had to be checked medically for everything. They were really very thorough. But when the last time I got my arm pricked for blood -- you know they check everything -- he went through the vein and I had this huge black and blue 01:17:00mark on my arm. Because if you go in one side of the vein and out the other you're apt to lose a lot of blood under your skin.
PGOf course at first I didn't know what it was. I didn't worry too much until Ifinally bumped into somebody who knew what it was and told me.
KROh my goodness. You did ever get sick or anything from it?
PG Oh, no. But you can imagine those poor technicians, medical technicians,doing person after person after person after person. You can't be that perfect all the time.
KRWell, especially, you've got people --
PGDidn't bother me, though --
KRsome people that, my veins collapse when they take blood. I can't give bloodmy veins just --
PGOh, dear --
KRI have really bad --
PGDoes it bother you?
KRWell, I just can't , they can't, they have a really hard time even for an I-Vjust to find a vein. And then when they get one, the veins just collapse. So I 01:18:00couldn't even I wanted to give blood I couldn't because my body just doesn't want to do that. But, I think it would be really hard doing those sorts of things and doing person after person after persona nd trying to find their veins
KRIt could be really tedious.
PGAnd knowing you're working on a person every time and everybody is differetnand has different feelings and thoughts.
KRIt could be very very hard. I can't think of anything else to ask.
PGWell, thank you. I think you've asked lots.'
KRYay. Well thank you very much.