Interview with Dottie Soules in her home in Portland Oregon on xxxxx.Interviewer: Kathleen Ryan
KROK, so we are rolling and I have sound. I may look down here every once inawhile. I have a meter and I may check to see if things are getting too loud or too soft. So I'm going to start with my simple question that I start with all of these. It's for my transcripts, so I know who I'm talking to.
KRIf you could please tell me your name and I'd like both the name you served inin the WAVES and the name you have currently. And if you could please spell your last name.
DSOK. When I joined the WAVES I was 20 years old. My name was Theresa -- that'smy first name. I never went by that name until I went into the Navy, by the way. It's my legal name. Theresa Doris Bougie. B-O-U-G-I-E.
KRAnd how do you spell Theresa. Is it T-H --
DSAnd I've always been known as Dot, Dottie at home. That's the name I'vecarried on through the years. However, I started using Theresa because that was 00:01:00my first name. They wanted it exactly how it was on my birth certificate when I went in the Navy.
KRSee, when I heard the Dottie, I've talked to so many Dorothy's who were eithera Dottie or Dot. So when I heard the Dottie, I figured you were a Dorothy.
DS(laughs) No. Doris.
KRAnd you're the first Theresa I've met who was a Dottie! (laughs)
DS(laughs). No, I went to school as Doris.
KRAnd when you do Dottie, it is T-T-I --
KRI ask that because --
DSThat's the old fashioned way of doing it.
KRI've also met I's and Y's -- every thing you can imagine.
DSA lot of people drop the E now. But I keep it.
KRSo why don't we -- let's talk about before you joined the WAVES. Tell me aboutyour growing up. Where did you grow up?
DSI was born and raised in New Bedford, Massachusetts. Went to High schoolthere. When I graduated from high school it was January of 1942. We had two graduations back then. So my school year, I started school in January and they 00:02:00ended in January. December 7th of '41 ended just before graduation. Quite a few of my classmates, you men, left school before the end of the school year. So it was a terrible impact on all of us because it was something we had not been preparing for. We had heard Roosevelt talking about the war in Europe much more. We hadn't even considered Japan as an enemy, as least as far as the general public of the nation was concerned. So it was quite a blow and quite a surprise to all of us. But after I gradauted from high I had wanted to go to college. I was a good student. I had taken a college scientific course all through high school and had taken French as a foreign language. But I thought perhaps I would like to teach a foreign language, so I carried Latin as an extra subject all 00:03:00through high school. But my parents couldn't afford to send me to college. The war had just started, there was a defense plant in town, so I went to work for the Air Vox Corporation which was a defense plant. They put me on the assembly line. Well, that wasn't for me (Laughs). So I went to personnel to see if there was something better I could do. I had enrolled in the meantime at a night school. Typing and shorthand and all that good stuff, which bored me stiff. They didn't have any openings in the secretarial pool, my typing wasn't good enough, ,but I asked to be, "I had physics and chemistry and high school, so could I work in the labs?" So I worked in the labs until I was 20.
KRWhat did you do in the labs?
DSTesting all the different materials that had been, that they had to make the00:04:00plastics. The transistors for all the different electronic equipment, it was an electronics corporation. I enjoyed the lab work and working with the people. It was a different atmosphere altogether than being on an assembly line. However, we were reading all the newspaper all the time about what was going on. When the was first started, especially in the Pacific, things weren't going very well. And I had a cousin who was a couple of years older than I am, so she went in the Navy. I thought, "Gee, that woulod be great." I got engaged when I was 19 years old. My fianc when into the Army. And when he came home on leave, I had been thinking about it. When he came home on leave, I talked with him about it. I had just turned 20 by then. He said he didn't want me to go.
KRWhy didn't he want you to go?
DSI have no idea. He was just very definite against it. Well, I thought, "He'snot going to push me around!" (laughs) So after he went back, he was stationed 00:05:00in Georgia at the time, after he went back, I went into the recruiting office. That was in May of '44, because I had turned 20 in January. So, he went back and I went to the recruiting office in May. They did such a good job off talking to me that I (laughs) signed up to go. I came home and told my parents,. And my mother was very upset but my dad was thrilled. He said, "Go for it." He convinced my mother that ought to spread my wings. On June 6th -- it was D-Day -- I went to Boston and that's when I took my physical exams and things like that. And was sworn into the Navy on D-Day.
KRWhy was your mother -- was she upset because she thought that you were leavinghome or were there other reasons?
DSI don't know. I have a sister who is two years younger than I am and she hadjust graduated from high school in January before I went to join the service in 00:06:00July. She went to nursing school at Bellevue Hospital in New York City. See, she had already left and she left right after graduation from high school., My brother was in the Army at the time. I guess she just wanted me to stay home. I don't know. I had one younger sister, still in high school. So, anyway, I went. (laughs)
KRAnd what happened to the fianc?
DSHe went by the bye. (laughs). I'm thinking, he tried to rule my life and tellme what to do and we're not even married. What's he going to be like when we're married. So I thought, that's not for me.
KRProbably good that you found that out beforehand?
DSIsn't that the truth? I got sworn in on June 6th of '44 and left for the Navyof the 19th of July. That's when I had to report. 00:07:00
KRTo boot camp at Hunter? I'd like to go back -- I want to talk about boot campat Hunter, but first I'd like to go back a little bit. Tell me what, New Bedford's predomentaly, was it a mill town? Like for --
DSBack in the '30s it was but then all the mills shut down in the Depression.They went to North Carolina and to the south. The city was pretty well hit by it. It's a seaport. And scallopping was very very popular. It still is. In fact, it's one of the main scallop ports in the United States. Lots and lots of fishing around that area too.
KRWhat did your dad do?
DSHe owned a grocery store. He was a butcher.
KRSo he wouldn't have been, he would have been impacted a bit by the millclosings but not a lot?
DSWell, he lost his first business, yes.
DSBecause he extended credit to all the people who worked in the mills, and theycouldn't pay. They couldn't pay their bills. 00:08:00
KRHow did that impact your family? Did you move or anything?
DSWell, yes, we did. Because we had owned a house and we moved into anotherhome. But we rented rather than owned it.
KRAnd then did he start working for another grocer, is that was he did? He did,as a butcher?
DSHe was always able to work. He managed to work. He was a manager, there was anational chain called the First National Grocers. He became manager of one of their stores somewhere along the line in the '30s.
KRSo your family was comfortable.
KRNo, I'm just interested in knowing everyone's background, where they camefrom. Did your mom ever work outside the house?
KRWhat did she,what were they hoping when you were growing up, what were the goals?
DSSchoolteacher! (laughs) That was my mother's goal. But I had to go to college00:09:00for that. She thought it would be great if I were able to go to school and forego dating and all that stuff for several years just to pay back their time and money spent on my education. But at the time I had two younger sisters and I could nt go to college, although I wanted to really badly. And, of course, researching going into the service, that was one of the big incentives. Getting a college degree.
KRBecause your qualified for the GI Bill?
KRHow big was your family?
DSI had one brother and two sisters.
KRThere were four of you.
DSI was the oldest girl.
KRAnd your brother was older than you.
DSFive years. He got married during the time -- he got married in November justbefore December 7th.
DSYes. I was his bridesmaid. That was a happy times (? 1010) and then he went00:10:00into the Army.
KRWhat did he thing about your joining the military?
DSHe didn't say anything about it to me because he was gone and I didn't talk tohim about it. But I just made up my own mind (laughs). I tried to be independent as much as I could even though I had to still live at home and support the family.
KRSo you went to boot camp.
KRAt Hunter College.
DSYes, at Hunter College.
KRSo tell me about that. How did you, did you do the -- I've talked to womenfrom the West Coast and they had to take the troop trains. Did you take a troop train down?
DSNo, no. Had to take the bus from New Bedford to Providence. From Providence Itook the train to New York or Hartford, I can't remember taht to this day, then to the Bronx, New York City in Grand Central. That's where we were met, in Grand Central. There was another girl from New Bedford that left the same day I did 00:11:00and we were in the same unit together. But to get to the Bronx from Grand Central, you had to take a subway from Grand Central. (lauighs) My sister was already in New York at Bellevue, so at least I had somebody in town, but I had never been to New York before.
KRSo what was it like going there? Because New Bedford is not a, it's not a huge town.
DSIt was a hundred and ten thousand at that time. It was a nice city, but oh! Tosee all those tenement buildings coming into the city, New York city, from the train windows is not the most appealing sight in the world (laughs). Then riding the subway, we finally get to Hunter College, they start herding us with some of the other, well, not herding us, they didn't give us any chance at all to get into the rooms we were going to live in in these big apartment houses. They took us over to a big gym, I don't know where it was, somewhere in the school. The 00:12:00first thing they did was fit us for shoes.
DSMmm-hmm. It was black, oxford shoes and hemless (? 1214) lisle stockings. Theheavy lisle stockings? The told he we had to start wearing those right away. They gave us hats, issued us out hats. We had to wear off-season colors. I went in the summertime and the caps they had us wear, the round caps, but had an insert that was in white. Well since we just were starting out, we were boots and all that, we had to wear a navy blue insert. So they could, everybody could see us on the street and tell we were just recruits, just starting out, and to treat us differently (laughs). So we had to wear our hats all the time. With those shoes and stocking on, we looked like little (\??? 1256)
KRThose lisle stockings are really thick aren't they.
DSThey're horrible (laughs). And the shoes! The shoes were worse!00:13:00
KRWhat was wrong with the shoes?
DSWell, they were just, you know, lace up oxfords. Like old ladies wear, thekind I wear now! (laughs)
KRNot very attractive if you're 20 years old.
DSNo, hardly. And then they finally let us go into our assigned rooms. Therewere 12 of us in an apartment.
KRHow big was the apartment?
DSTwo bedrooms. There were three bunk beds in each bedroom. So we each had ourown bed, but there were six of us in each room. One bathroom. It was a hot summer. No screens on the windows. No air conditioning, of course. We were on the fourth floor. There was an elevator, but we were not allowed to ride the elevator. That was a no-no. So we had to climb the stairs all the time (laughs).
KRYou must have been just dripping with sweat.
DSMmm-hmm. We were.
KRThis is New York. Summers are not --00:14:00
DSNew York summers are not nice. (laughs) Especially living in a coastal town,where the weather is much more, much nicer, but oh, I tell you. The heat was hard to take. They kept us boot busy all day long. Besides class work and getting out on the field marching and drilling and that sort of stuff. The exercise, calesthenics. And then marching from the apartment house, muster out in the middle of the street and then march in formation to the college where the dining room was, meals three times a day. And that evening, the first evening we ate there, they served liver and onions. I thought, my god, I can't survive in this Navy! (laughs)
KRYou were not a liver and onions fan?
DSNo. The way my mother fixed it, but my gosh, I thought -- I couldn't eat it."Is this the way it's going to be in the Navy? I better go home!" But things 00:15:00changed and turned out OK. Then we got assigned our uniforms. Since it was summer, they gave us the grey seersucker uniforms to wear. During the time that I was there, there was also the WAVES birthday. I don't know if that was in July, the end of July or sometime in August. And so, we had a big celebration, were going to have to parade. March on the field at the college. And Mayor LaGuardia was going to be there in the stands. Well, it was so hot. We had corpsmen standing, it was so hot. We were in an ampitheater, down here in the bottom. Corpsmen were standing around. And girls were fainting all over the place. After it was over, we got back to our quarters, they told us it was 99 degrees that day and if it had been 100 degrees they would have called it off. So we weren't very happy about that.
KRI'm sure it was about 99 percent humidity.00:16:00
DSIt was just awful.
KRI know those New York summers. It can be just miserable.
DSIt was. The heat was unbearable. We got through it and we went through all thedifferent classes they were talking about, all the different things we could do and stuff. When finally we left there, see we left and I think it was September. And went into the hospital corps. Went to Bethesda.
KRYou went to Bethesda for training?
KRDid you go for advance training there? Or did you go directly into thehospital corps?
DSNo, I went into training. We had six weeks of training. Six weeks at Bethesda.And while we were at Bethesda, we usually got the scut work nurse's aids get. After that, we got a leave, so I got to go home after that. So it was a few days. They had given us, told us we were going to be assigned to different places around the county. They asked us for our choice of where we wanted to go. 00:17:00This is so ironic. Because I thought, "Well, I've lived on the east coast all of my life. Maybe I'd like to go over the west coast." So I applied, my first two choices were hospitals on the west coast. And the other one was for St. Alban's Hospital back east. They sent me to Norman, Oklahoma! (laughs).
KRIt reminds of the movie I just watched with my husband, Here Comes the WAVES.It has Bing Crosby in it, I forget who the female star is. She plays twin sisters. And one of the sisters, one of the twins says, "Oh, yes, we knew we wanted to come to the west coast, so we applied to east coast hospitals. Knowing the Navy," You know, the Navy.
DSYes. They gave us three choices and I thought I'd get one of the the choices.00:18:00So I got to go to Normal, Oklahoma. (laughs)
KROh, dear. So what was that like?
DSWell, it wasn't that bad. Really, you have to adapt to wherever you're going.I got there and the assignment was to sick officer's quarters. And SOQ, there weren't that many officers in there, but they expected to be waited on. And I was not going to do that. So I asked, I wasn't afraid to ask for a change of assignment. So they gave me another assignment. They made me the outpatient department, the receptionist in the outpatient department for the dependents of the people at the base. There were two bases at Norman. There was -- pilot's training was on the north base and the south base was where the hospital was. It was where the aviation mechanic's mates got their training. The hospital was 00:19:00located on the south base. And so, I stayed there in the reception area then I saw a notice somewhere that they were looking for volunteers to go into lab training. And I thought that sounds like something I'd like to do. So I applied for it and I got main orders from BuPers in Washington, DC to on to Long Beach California for lab training. I ended up in Long Beach -- I got to New Oreleans in October and stayed there until the end of December. I ended up in Long Beach, California, on New Year's Eve 1944 going into '45.
KRAnd I know -- I remember the Long Beach Naval facility and it was enormous. Itwas huge.
DSUh-huh. So I took my lab training and it's a VA hospital no, in fact one of myemployees went there in the '60 or '70s working for the VA. I sent her a picture 00:20:00of me that was sitting on the lawn in front in the hospital for them to see what it looked like back in the '40s (laughs). So anyway, I got to Long Beach and I stayed there until I got out of the service.
KRSo you're now, you were able to see the west coast at that point.
DSYes, yes. Southern California. I stayed there for the rest of my time. I gotout in April of 1946. They very first week I was there, of course, I met my future husband.
KRWhat did he do? He was in the Navy?
DSYes, he was in the Navy. He was in the lab. And I was training, I had a sixmonths training period to go through. He was working. He had already been through his training. We started dating and the next thing you know we got engaged. The war ended in August of '46. And he was sent, by that time he had 00:21:00been transferred to Seal Beach, just a few miles down the road to work the lab there. And he got sent on a ship. The Vincenes. I guess it was a cruiser. He was sent to the South Pacific. He went to -- yes, he went to Australia. And New Zealand. So he was gone for several months. I stayed in Long Beach. When the ship came back to the United States, it ended up in Vallejo near Allen and we got married right away. The next weekend, he had to hitchhike to Long Beach (laughs). I didn't know if I would get married that day or not because it depended on him getting down there in time and getting the blood work done. The minute he walked into the lab, I grabbed him and just got his blood test done and got a marriage license and married that afternoon. (laughs) 00:22:00
KRJustice of the peace, or Navy chaplain?
DSChaplain. I had already talked to the chaplain and told him if he made it --we had a chaplain in the hospital. So we could get married by the chaplain in the hospital. One of the guys that was in the lab lived in southern California and he had gone home the night before and brought in some orange blossoms. So I had orange blossoms for my wedding (laughs).
KRThose smell good.
KRThey're small but they smell really pretty. Uhm tell me what you did in thelab. What sort of work did you do there?
DSWell, you have to go through all the various departments in my training. Afterthat I was in the chemistry lab.
KRSo what sort of work, what sort of things were you doing? Describe thye workfor me.
DSBlood tests, cholesterol, blood sugars, that sort of stuff. All the variety oftests that people do even now. So, we had plenty of -- all of that, I don't know 00:23:00how many people were in the hospital. But all the ambulatory patients would come to us in the morning and stand in the line to get their blood drawn. And then we'd have to go out into the wards and the rooms to draw blood from people who were too sick to come to the lab. We kept very very busy. (undistinguishable 2332)
KRAnd I would assume working mostly with men, or were there WAVES in the unit?
DSNo, not too many WAVES. Mostly men.
KRAnd most of the people in the hospital were men, I'm assuming?
KRSaw a lot of guys coming back from service.
DSWe had a lot of women, but some of them were in the ward. Some worked asdental assistants, but a lot of them worked in the offices in the hospital.
KRMy my worked in the hospital in Treasure Island. She was a pharmacist's mate.00:24:00
DSI was too.
KRSo that's the sort of work a pharmacist's mate would do?
DSThat kind of thing. I don't know what your mother did, but a lot of us werepart of the hospital corps.
KRSo you guys got married. And how, what was that in 1945 or '46?
KRAnd how long after that did you stay in.
DSAbout three weeks. I was supposed to get out in the middle of March in '46.But I had to stay in another month because I knew his ship was coming in and we were planning on getting married just as soon has his ship came in. It just so happened we were able to. We got married on the 30th of March and I went to San Diego to Camp Ellliot, the marine base there, to get discharged. And I was discharged from Camp Elliot on the 18th of April.
KRWhat were your -- was this something you wanted to continue to do? What were00:25:00your feelings when you got disccharged.
DSWell, I was ready to go on with my life. I wanted to go on to college. Thatnever stopped. It never never ceased being on my mind. That's one of the reasons I joined the Navy anyway. I felt -- there were several reasons, some of them altruistic. I felt that I wanted to go because we were in the middle of the war and it was absolutely necessary that I take part in it. It was part of my nature. I had to do it. But I saw some advantages for myself too. And being able to get a degree was one of the things I was looking forward too and counting on doing. My husband had been in college before going into the service so he was planning on going back to school. So that worked real well for both of us. And so we did.
KRSo where did you go to school?
DSHe had already been to school. He was from Kansas. And he had been schooled atPhillips sUniversity in Oklahoma. It's a trade school. So we went to Phillips. 00:26:00He got his bachelor's there. Then he went to the University of Oklahoma to work on his master's. I had one whole year to go. So I got my bachelor's from Unversity of Oklahoma. From there we went to Dallas, Texas. He went to -- he didn't finish his master's from OU. He transferred to Dallas because he went to OBI -- graduate research, which is a part of Baylor University out of Waco. So he worked on his master's there and I took 13 months internship with the American Association of Clinical Pathologists and got by ASCP after 13 months internship and worked at the hospital in Dallas until my first child was born.
KROK, I need a translation. You gave me an acronym. ASCP?
DSAmerican Association of Clinical Pathologists.
KROK> So what -- was that doing similar labwork as what you were doing in the Navy?00:27:00
DSYes. It was, except it was a registry, it was a national registry that'srecognized. And to become a leader, hold a good position in clinical laboratories you have to hold an ASCP.
KROK> So your idea of being a teacher?
DSFlew out the window. Especially foreign languages (laughs). I took all of thatin high school for nothing!
KRWell, I'm sure that Latin helped you with medical work though.
DSI don't know. But I really liked chemistry. Zoology was my major, but --biology, anatomy and all that good stuff. But I took chemistry as a minor and had 28 hours of chemistry. Even as a minor, I took 28 hours of chemistry. After I got through through my training I worked in the pathology lab for two years until Paul was born. AFter that, I didn't work full time for ten years. 00:28:00
KRWas that by choice or was that -- how did your husband feel about you working.Did he care?
DSHe never minded. He got his master's and decided to go for his Ph.D. And I hadthree children between the master's and the Ph.D. (laughs) So I had my hands full. I also did all that typing for his dissertation (laughs).
KRThank goodness for computers nowadays!
DSIsn't that the truth. Because we used to have to do the files were carboncopied. If you made a mistake, you had to do it all over again. And he had to get it turned in to Waco. Here I had three little kids, you know, I had to put them in nursery school for a week so I could type at home and not be disturbed. I didn't have an electric typewriter. We had to rent one. We just had a regular typewriter. I had done the preliminary on that one, so I got an electric 00:29:00typewriter. We were going hired a Kelly girl to work in my husband's office and type it, and I was going to proofread it at night. Well, I hadn't done it for several days and he brought it home for me to look at. She had done seven pages was all. It was all technical terms, because it was on microbiology and hemotology and all that, so it was terms she was not familiar with. It was a hardship on her, a lot of graphs and tables. I said, "We can't do this. Seven pages in seven days. It's not going to work." So I put the kids in nursery school and we got it done. And it was so late we had to hand-deliver it to Baylor. To Waco (laughs). But he made it. He was, he got the first Ph.D. at Baylor.
KRHe did? Wow. I didn't realize that the Ph.D. there had started -- I thought00:30:00the program had been around for longer. I didn't realize it was such a relatively recent development.
DSNo, it was in the '50s.
KRAnd so then did he go on to be a college professor or was he --
DSNo. He was director, associate director of a blood bank. OF the researchinstitute. He studied blood yes. Then we got divorced, about, let me see, in '67 was when we got divorced. We had been married 21 years.
KRWas -- and how old were your kids at this time?
DS11, 12, and 13.
KROK. Had you started back to work yet?
DSI started back to work -- we were separated for a year. And I started back towork when Michael was 10. I had gone back to work one day a week when they were little. Because the ASCP at that time required that you put in three months 00:31:00every five years at least to keep up our registration. So when Michael was a year old, I had been out, Paul was three was then. I had been out of work, I left work when I was seven months with Paul. So I had been out of work four years. And I thought, well, I've got to get out of here and get my three months in. So I did in the summertime so my sister could look after my three kids. I worked four days a week, but I put in ten hours a day those four days a week and got my three months in and I quit. But they asked me to stay on. So I worked every Saturday for 10 years.
KRAnd your husband was, that wasn't a source of tension for you guys?
DSNo. A sweet young graduate student was the source of tension (laugsh).
KROh, dear! That's not good.00:32:00
DSNo, it wasn't good at all because he left me with three teenage boys to educate.
KRDid he help? My mom got divorced also. I was eight when my parents gotdivorced, so I know that child support was not --
DSNo, he paid child support. He did. He got married the week after we got divorced.
DSSo he had it all planned. It only takes two months in Texas to get a divorce.Anyway, he paid child support until each one turned 18. I asked him if he would continue on to help, to educate in college, but he wouldn't do it. So I lost support one each year, because they're stair steps. There's 29 months between the youngest and the oldest. So I had three on college for two years going. I carried an extra job all the way through. Screening pap smears. I'd do that at 00:33:00home. I'd bring the pap smears home, I had a microscope at home this analyst had gave me. And so at least I was home at the boys.
KRThis was a pretty, it sounds like the work you were doing, this was a fairlyintense and also demanding and fairly sophisticated job.
KRIt's different from say, working at, well, like your first WAVE jobe wasworking as a receptionist somewhere. This is very very different work.
DSYes, well, I worked as a receptionist way back when I was in Norman, but afterI worked in the lab, I worked in the chemistry lab for three years, let's see -- going back to work in '67. Full time. And in '72, five years, I worked in the chemistry lab and the girl who was the head of the lab developed breast cancer 00:34:00and died. And the man who was the head of the lab, the pathologist hired me to run the lab. So I was supervisor of the laboratory from then on. I got a pretty good boost in salary. Still, I screened the pap smears, so I was doing a lot of technology and still trying to do some bench work. Hiring and firing people, which is a hard job.
KROh, no, it's not fun. Looking back, do you -- part of the reason you workedwas you had to, correct? You needed to support your children.
DSYes, after the divorce I had to. Until then, I was a stay-at-home mom.
KRDo you think as your children got older, even if you didn't have to work, doyou think you would have worked?
DSYes. Yes, because there wasn't any reason why I couldn't. As it was, when they00:35:00all started school, I started doing volunteer work. I did volunteer work for St. Paul Hospital in Dallas. I did volunteer work for the cancer society. I joined the League of Women Voters and did a lot with the League, I became the leader for our group. I became busy all the time because I thought I didn't want to stay home and do nothing (laughs). In fact, I'm still doing volunteer work.
KRWell, that's a good thing, that's a good thing. I'm always curious. Youwonder, a lot of the women I've talked to have worked and for a lot of them it's been, for some it's been necessity, but for some it's been a choice as well.
DSThat's right. You get a certain satisfaction in working, yes. I think I';dhave wasted my time if I wasn't working. I've always enjoyed my work. In 1980 -- I think it was, yes, it was '80. See, I was 56. Yes. I had to have surgery in my 00:36:00neck. It was February of '76 I had a cervical laminectomy and had to recover for seven weeks.
KRWhat does that mean?
DSThey had to cut out in front and go to my vertebrae and take a bone out of myhip and make a new vertebrae. So I was seven weeks recovery and went I went back to work I thought, "You know, this is a grind. It's too much pressure and I don't need all of this." My youngest son had already graduated from college and I had quit my second job. "So why should I have all this aggravation?" Personal problems are always the worst, I think. While I was gone for seven weeks, I came back and they were acting like I was gone (laughs). In fact, I had to fire a 00:37:00couple of people that had been hired while I was gone because they just weren't cutting the mustard. So I thought, "I'm going to get something different. Something I can do nine to five and not have to worry about scheduling and not having to cover weekends and all." So I went to work in a clinic. I was hired to be supervisor of a doctor's clinic. They had 28 doctores there. We worked Monday through Friday and we had set hours and so it was nice, just to work eight hours a day and not to have to worry about overtime like I did at the hospital. I used to put in long hours at the hospital.
KRIs that because there wasn't enough staffing at the hospital, or just thenature of a hospital --
DSThe nature of a hospital. Because labs would come in and no matter what thetime of day or night that it was, it had to be done. And so -- with a clinic it 00:38:00was different. I used to come in at seven thirty and get the place started. Others would come in at eight or eight thirty. I'd leave at four thirty and the others would leave at five or five thirty. I thought it was just great. So I did that for five years until I was 16 and I retired. I've been retired for 22 years (laughs).
KRAlmost longer that you worked.
DSThat's right, that's right.
KRWhy, what you did, in many ways, doing this sort of work at that time, was itunusual. It seems like, what I hear about what things were like, say, in the '50s, it was very unusual for women to do that sort of work. Is that, do you think that was true?
DSI haven't thought about that, because the head of the laboratory over therewas a woman. She had her ASCP. In fact, we had three officers in the lab and 00:39:00they were all three women. Except the pathologist, of course he was the head of the lab. And so there were three women officers. They didn't do any bench work at all. I didn't think much about it. We had both males and females. We had more males than we did females in the lab. And we worked, like with the heomotogy department at the hospital and that was doing blood counts. We worked with sterology doing all the blood tests for syphallis and then worked in urology and microbiology, but chemistry was my favorite and that's where I gravitated to after I had done all of my training.
KRAnd this was in -- I just want to make sure I'm clear -- this was in the Navy?
DSIn the Navy. Yes.
KRBut what about afterwards? What about when you went in the workforce?
DSWell, after I got my internship finished and I got my ASCP, I worked in the00:40:00pathology department for two years. Then when I went back, I went back to work in the hospital and that's when I started my chemistry.
KRAnd so, was that, that's what I'm curious about. Was that unusual for women tobe there at that time in that sort of position?
DSNo, we had both males and females. No.
KROK. You know, when you think of the '50s your think of the housewife with thebig full skirt and little apron and the perfect hair. You don't think woman in a lab coat working in a lab.
DS(Laughs) That was never me! (laughs).
KRWhy not? Why was that never you?
DSBecause I wasn't built that way. (laughs) I had to be doing something besideshousework. To me, it was not an achievement. It was not my fort. My mother was a perfect housekeeper. I guess I rebelled against that. (laughs) 00:41:00
KRWas it something, you said your mom wanted you to be a schoolteacher. Did youdad also encourage you in your studies?
DSOh yes, both of them encouraged me, encouraged all of us. They insisted we geta high school education because that was so important. Back then, like a college education is a necessity these days.
KRWhat did your sisters end up doing.
DSMy sister, Jackie, was the one that ended up in nurse's training. She got herdegree from Bellevue. She remained a nurse for quite awhile. Her husband was a dental student at NYU, that's where where met him. They lived in Long Island for many years. Until two years ago she lived home/ She did, she stayed home, raised kids for awhile and then she went back into nursing on a part time basis. She worked for critical care patients, My younger sister went to school for a couple years and got a degree in design. It was an associate's degree in in -- let's 00:42:00see the kind of design. Not -- she worked in products in some mills that made blankets. So she was designing baby blankets. That's what she was doing. So it wasn't clothes designing. She married a gentleman who was in IT and when he got his degree, his master's he went to work for Dupont in West Virginia. They went to West Virginia and she never worked again. She still hasn't worked. (laughs) But Jackie and I did work some and thoroughly enjoyed it.
KRYou spoke about being able to come home on leave, when you were at Bethesda,you were able to come home on leave. What was your family's reaction? Is this the first time they had seen you in uniform? 00:43:00
DSUh-huh. Of course, during the war we were told we had to wear our uniforms allthe time, even when we were on leave. So I wore mine religiously. A friend of mine was in the service. He was on leave too. And so he called me up and we were able to see each other. I went to his house and he came to mine. So one day -- I used to love to ride my bicycle. And one day I thought, "I'm going to ride my bike and I'm going to get out of uniform." So I put (laughs) on some old clothes and we out bike riding out in the country. And I felt guilty! (laughs) Because I wasn't supposed to do that. I couldn't, I just couldn't not do it.
KRI thought it was OK to not wear the uniform when you were doing physicalactivity. Exercise.
DSNo. But at the same time, there was no way I was going to ride a bicycle in auniform (laughs).
KRWhat was your parents' reaction when they saw you in the uniform? What didthey think of it?
DSThey never really said. My mother and my youngest sister met me in Providence00:44:00when I came home. So we rode the bus back to New Bedford together. No, I think they were happy and proud to see me. But nothing was ever said. My brother was out of the Army by then. One of the reasons -- and this might be strange to you -- one of the reasons I chose the Navy was because of the uniform.
KRWhat do you mean?
DSI'm sure you've probably heard this from others before. Well, for one thing,it was Navy blue instead of the lousy khaki color. And then the main reason though was because you could wear your own underwear (laughs). The other disciplines they were issues underwear. When I was in Norman we used to go into Oklahoma City when we had liberty. We'd stay in a Y -- YWCA. And we'd have service women from the other branches were there. And they had all they're 00:45:00(laughs) old Army and military-issued underwear. We got to wear our own things. That really meant a lot to me.
KRWhy was that important to you?
DSWhy was that important to me? Because I just felt that was such an intimatepart of me, I didn't feel like having the military tell me how I could, what underwear I could wear (laughs).
KRDid you wear really fancy things as a result?
DSNo. Not really. But it was my own (laughs).
KRI know it was the own underwear and the own nightclothes. You could wear yourown nightgowns.
DSI didn't even know the military, the others didn't have their own nightclothes.
KRYes, I think they had to wear military nightclothes too.
DSThey did? Oh, I didn't know that! I used wear shortie pajamas all the time. InLong Beach, I was on the top bunk. As short as I am, I would have to just jump 00:46:00up and I would wear shortie pajamas. In fact, some of my friends bought me a nightgown when I got married because they didn't want my going on my honeymoon in shortie pajamas! (laughs).
KRAnd shortie pajamas are sort of the shirts and shorts?
DSYes. But, not -- and of course the uniforms were so well designed. They wereMainbocher (Main-boo-shay). That was a famous French designer. The others looked so much more military than the blues did.
KRYes, I've seen the uniforms and they're really -- they're even now, they stilllook gorgeous.
KRIt seems like they lasted very well and they were really well done.
DSVery good material. And the lines were good. Of course, we had topcoats, too,for wintertime. And I wore that topcoat after I got out of the service for several years. Because it was so nice in the Oklahoma winters.
KROh, I would think so, definitely. I've also seen those, some women still have00:47:00bits and pieces of the uniform. I've seen the topcoat and the raincoat. And the topcoat -- that wool, oh! It was so soft and pretty and really gorgeous. Did you have it special tailored for you?
DSNo, not the blues. I did the white. I bought a white uniform in Long Beach atone of the department stores in town. I got that one tailored. That's the one I got married in.
KRThat makes sense. Those were more of a -- they weren't a linen, were they, butthey were more of a --
DSI guess -- I don't think they were wool but a very fine serge probably,something like that. I don't even know what happened to that uniform. I wore it just for the wedding.
KRThat's the only reason you wore it?
DSI never wore it again. Before or after.
KRSo you just wore your seersucker or the blue.
DSYes. But we had smocks in the lab. I wore smocks a lot too. They were very00:48:00handy because they were sort of a sky blue. And we still had the emblems on the sleeves. That was very convenient to work in the lab.
KRDid you wear slacks in the lab?
DSOh, no, we never wore slacks. Back then you didn't wear slacks at all. Theonly thing is, I sure didn't wear lousy shoes (laughs). As soon as I got out -- I wanted loafers. I loved loafers. I couldn't find any black loafers anywhere. So I just bought brown ones and got some black shoe polish and made my own black shoes out of them. So I was able to wear loafs. And we had -- we didn't have nylons yet. So I wore silk stockings. I wasn't about to wear those lisle stockings that we wore (laughs). That was just for boot camp. That was it!
KRThey didn't really have a whole lot of -- they didn't stay up real nice, didthey, thos lisle stockings? The kind of bagged?
DSThey were baggy, yes. You had to wear garter belts, of course, to hold themup, or a girdle. Try wearing a girdle in the middle of summer in New York. It's 00:49:00a nightmare. Then we had to do our own laundry too in New York. Those seersucker uniforms -- it's kind of hard to wash things by hand, because we didn't have washing machines to do things with. At the hospital, we just took our laundry down to the laundry room and they just did it for us.
KRWell, having the smocks, too, I'm sure it made it -- it means that you don'thave to wear your jacket and those kinds of things quite as much.
KRSo you could get by -- I know that a number of other women I've talked to hadmore than one uniform because they were wearing their uniforms all the time.
DSYes. Well I had, I had two uniforms, besides the white. And I had theseersucker, besides the seersucker. I didn't wear that one too much, after I got out of Bethesda. I guess I wore in summers, but see, it would start getting winter -- they would tell us, "The uniform of the day is such-and-such." But in 00:50:00the lab, we could always wear smocks, regardless of what the uniform of the day was. But when we were at liberty, we had to wear our blues. Then we got rid of those little beanie caps and got the overseas caps. Those were so much more comfortable to wear.
KRWhat was sort of the, when you were in Long Beach -- I know Long Beach was ahuge military town at the time, but what was the reaction when you were out on the streets? What did people -- how did they respond to you?
DSThey were used to us. They accepted us, because we helped the economy a greatdeal. Every time we would go out on liberty, we would go out to eat. Hospital food was OK, but it wasn't that great. We'd got out to eat or go out to the movies. We always spent money. In fact, we would go through mine and David's both in a weekend (laughs). It was just -- I had a friend who was from Texas. 00:51:00She came into the Navy. She was one of the girls who came in after I did. She was an only child and her mother was a single mother. Her dad had died. She was a nurse. Her mother followed her from Austin and she got a job in the hospital in town. She had a small apartment that she rented. We were there sometimes in the evenings and she would cook us a meal. My dad being a butcher, we had extra stamps and he would send them to me. She would go out and buy some meat with it. I had another friend, she was civilian married to one of the Navy boys, and her parents, she lived with her parents. We'd go over there a lot. Her mother fixed goulash a lot (laughs). So I had a chance to visit in homes rather than be out 00:52:00on the street all the time.
KRWhere did you live when you were there? Were there barracks there?
DSYes, we were living on base. In barracks. I think there was just one woman'sbarracks. I'm not sure. There were several men's barracks, but I think there was just one woman's barracks. I can't recall -- some of these thing are fuzzy now because it's been so long. It seems like I was on the second floor of the barracks. I don't know whether there were only two floors or not, but I was on the second floor. We had cubicles. There would be two bunks beds, two sets of bunk beds in each cubicle.
KRSo there would be four of you in each cubicle.
DSFour, yes. And then the walls didn't go up all the way to the top. It wasgreat big long room. I don't know how many wer in the room. We had communal showers. Lots of showers and stalls, yes.
KRDo you remember any of your bunkmate, or --?
DSNo, no. I never kept up with them after I got out.00:53:00
KRDid you keep up with anybody after you left?
DSI did. I kept up with one of my friends. I kept up with two of them. Harriet,the gal from Texas, I kept up with her. Her husband finally became president. He got his Master's. He became president of Southwestern University. In fact, I went to his innauguration. Lyndon Johnson was the speaker there at that time, so I got to meet him that day. Because David and I had been in Mexico City. He had been to a symposium there. We were on our way back from Mexico City and stopped in San Antonio and drove to San Marcus. Another one was Rita Howard. She lived in -- there was another one too, Elsa Diets. Rita Howard lived in Omaha. After the service was over, when she came out, she came to visit us one time. Because we were in Kansas at David's mother's house. It was summertime between college semesters. She came to visit us. And then we went to Omaha one time to visit 00:54:00her. And then Elsa came, was from Joplin, Missouri. When Rita came, when we went to Ohama, we had driven through Joplin to see Elsa and visit with her. We kept up with them for several years. Another time, the American Association of Blood Banks was having their annual meeting in San Francisco. We took off from Dallas a week early and drove and went to Southern California first and looked up Rita, who was living by that time with her sister. So we had a chance to meet up with her. Then one of my Navy-mates from the hospital and I kept up with him until last year.
KRDid he just pass away?
DSMmm-hmm. But every year at Christmas-time, well, he would send a Christmascard. He was a, he became a pharmacist in Syosset out on Long Island, New YOrk.
KRI was thinking, "I know where that is." Where -- how did you end up -- you00:55:00were in Texas, and your sons --
DSAll three of my sons were born there.
KRThey were born and went to school there, right?
DSMmm-hmm. All got their degrees from different universities in Texas. Yes.
KRWhere did they go?
DSPaul, the eldest, went to North Texas University in Denton.
KRAnd is he the one who is in Japan?
DSNo. He's in California now. And Jonathan went to University of Texas inArlington, which is outside of Dallas. And Michael went to the University of Texas in Dallas, U-T-D, which is in Plano. And got his degree from there. Michael is the one who stayed in Texas. He married a north Oklahoma girl and they live out they've got a ranch out in Valley View. Jonathan, like I say, he got his degree from U-T-A. And he lived in Dallas. He married a girl. He went to California after he graduated from college. Stayed there about a year and met a gal from California. A little Phillippino girl. He married her and they came 00:56:00back to Texas. They stayed in Texas for several years and then he was offered a job in Utah. He had Ruth had become Mormons by then. And it was just great to go Mecca! (laughs) They're still in Utah. They live in Bountiful, which is right outside Salt Lake City.
KRMmm-hmm. How did you end up in Southern Oregon?
DSJust -- well, it's interesting. Back in the '80s before I retired, my sisterand her husband lived in New York. He was still practicing then.
DSDentistry. And he wanted to -- they wanted to come on a trip out to the westcoast, and they wanted to know if I wanted to come along. And I said, "Sure." So we flew -- we met in San Francisco and rented a car. Drove all the way through the west coast. Went up the coast line. We fired off, went back -- We started 00:57:00off in San Francisco. Stayed there several days. Then went to Yosemite. Went back to the coast, stayed, coming up the coast as we got to Eureka. Morty was looking at a map and he said, "You know, Crater Lake isn't that far from here." He said, "Let's go to Crater Lake tomorrow and then we'll go back, we'll head out to the coast and coastal road again." So we went through Grants Pass. And it was about eight o'clock in the morning when we came -- I guess it was Crescent City we were in, not Eureka. And we drove across the river and it was so pretty. It was just in May, the end of May first part of June. It was just beautiful crossing that river and it stayed in my mind. And so, we went to Crater Lake then we ended up back at Roseburg, had lunch and then went out to the coast again. But anyway, when I got ready to retire I thought, "Well, I want to get out of Dallas." Dallas was a big city. "And I need something that's a little bit 00:58:00easier living." So I began doing research about places to retire. And Grants Pass is one of the places that was mentioned. I thought, "I remember going through Grants Pass." So I started out in Florida. I did. I flew to Florida and checked out several places and I thought "Gee! The bugs and the heat!" (laughs) I got there in September. I went up the coast, the east coast. My sister Petie and her husband lived in Delaware by then and they had a summer home in the southern part of Delaware near Hopeless Beach. And so I stayed, went over there and checked out that area, thinking I might retire there. My brother had already moved from Dallas by then, because he had moved from New Bedford to Dallas when I did. He moved back to Delaware and so, he was all thrilled that I was going to move near him. But, uh-uh. That's not my place. I've got to go see the rest of the world. I had written to the Chamber of Commerce in Seattle and also in Little Rock, Arkansas, because those seemed like good places to go. I never 00:59:00heard back from either one of them.
DSYes. And so, I thought, I had never been to Oregon before that one time I cameto Crater Lake. So I thought, "I've got to check out Oregon again before I do anything." I came to Grants Pass again and really looked around and that was it.
KRWhen was this?
DS1989. I had gone to the Hill Country in Texas, too. I thought the Hill Countrymight be nice. Outside of San Antonio. I did go there. Spent several days in Kerville. I think it was Kerville, yes. Found some places that looked nice along the Pentanales River. I thought, "That might be a nice place to live." But then, you know, "I've still got to go to Oregon." Something was pulling me here. And that was it.
KRSo you moved here all alone.
DSMmm-hmm. I didn't know a soul.
KRThat's huge. That can be a really hard thing to do.
DSI was 60 -- 65 by then I think. By, anyway -- let's see, '89, '90 -- I was 6601:00:00by the time I moved. Because I looked at houses. I contacted a real estate agent. I came up here and stayed a few days. We looked at houses. I couldn't find anything that appealed to me. Then she mentioned something about this park here. And so I thought, well, I would drive around. It's an old park and I didn't want an old house. I went to a dealership that was on Union Avenue at the time that sold mobile homes. I talked to them. I said, "I'd like to have a new home, but at the same time, I don't know of any park that takes in new homes." She said that Rogue Lee Estates was the nicest park in the city, but she would call. So she called over here and talked to the manager. They said they had a house that was being pulled out of the lake, but they wanted a double wide being 01:01:00put in. Of course, that's what I wanted. They'll pulled the house out, and I contracted to have it built and moved here. It took about three months. So I've been here since February of 1990. Seventeen years almost. In one spot (laughs). But I was in Dallas 38 years.
KRWow. That's a big move to make, especially -- because often you hear thatpeople move to be near their kids, or they have some family that lives there or something.
DSWhen I left, Jonathan was living in Dallas at the time. He said, "You know,when kids group up, they leave home (laughs). In this case, it's Mama who's leaving home!" (laughs) they're so good about coming up to see me, and I go down to see them a lot.
KRWell, you mention you travel a lot. You also got involved with WAVES National.01:02:00Were you here when you got involved with them?
DSYes. I hadn't even heard of them. But I saw something in the newspaper, alittle notice in the newspaper with a phone number and I called. I went to a meeting. That very first meeting was in Brookings. I got to meet the other gals and I thought this sounded interesting so I joined. And so I've been one of the older members of this group, I think I've been a member since 1991. When I got to Grants Pass, I didn't know anybody. So how are you supposed to get to meet people? And so I thought, the first thing to do is find out what the doctors are like and the hospitals are like so in case I need either one of them. So I joined the auxiliary right away at Southern Oregon Hospital at the time. So right away I was a member of the auxiliary. I went to the RSVP office and signed up to do volunteer work right away. So I was doing volunteer work at the hospital for several years and I worked at the Junior department for a year. 01:03:00Then I got to, heard there were some openings at the courthouse for bailiffs. So in '92 I checked it out and became a bailiff at the courthouse.
KRAnd is this a volunteer?
DSMmm-hmm. And I'm still a bailiff. I'm still working there.
KRWow. So you're making sure to stay involved?
DSYes. I do court work. I thought I was in the medical profession all theseyears, it would be kind of nice to see what law's all about. (laughs) So, I've been there since '92. I work, we have a schedule three months at a time. So I always know when I'm going to work. There are six of us who do this. So if I want to go someplace, I call somebody and say, "Hey, cover for me and I'll cover for you." It works out fine. So, none of us are tied down. 01:04:00
KRIs is all retired people who do this?
DSYes. Because we're all volunteer. We're saving the county beaucoup dollars a year.
KRThe county's in bad shape.
DSAbsolutely. Absolutely. In fact, I don't know, the court administrator, I wastalking to him the other day and we were talking about that very thing. And he said that Judge Baker, he's the presiding judge, would like to do something for the bailiffs to reward them for the work they do. We don't get paid for anything. We wouldn't be volunteers if we did. They wanted to furnish us lunch when we were on duty. Well, we don't want lunch. We have to be there after the jurors leave at lunchtime to make sure court is all cleared out. We have to get things ready and be there when the jurors start getting back after lunch. Well, some of those jurors aren't gone very long and so we'd have to leave, go out and 01:05:00find a place to eat, come back and find a place to park all over again. You know what the parking's like in town. So, we just didn't want lunch. They thought, well, they could do something else for us. No. We're volunteers. We're here to do a job. We want to keep it that way. And that's the way it's stayed.
KRWhat do your sons think about your -- do they every say, "Mom, you're retired.You need to stay home."
DSOh, no. They encourage me, yes. They like the fact that I'm independent(laughs). They come see me and stay quite often. My youngest son, no my oldest son Paul, he and his wife got divorced about six years ago -- five or six, I guess it was six years ago. She was my favorite girl. I just love her to pieces. She worked in the Bay area and she decided to make a change. And last year -- I 01:06:00guess it was two years ago, she came over here one day and said that -- she worked for Cisco. I guess she was a director for the company. And it was getting to be too much pressure on her. She said, "I'm going to move. I don't know where I'm going to go to yet, but I think I'm going to go to North Carolina." So, she finally did. She moved to Raleigh. She had been there and travelled when she worked with another company before. And also she wanted to make a fresh start. She decided to do some consulting work. My son, meantime, stayed in the Bay area, and he met a woman a couple of years ago now. They started going together and they got married last September. We had a nice wedding in the Napa Valley. And then Aileen decided to get married and she got married in November. So 01:07:00they're both remarried now, they both seem very very happy with their marriage. They have one child, a son. He's in New York. He graduated summa cum laude with phi beta kappa out of Columbia three years ago.
KRAnd what does he do?
DSHe works for the Princeton Review. He's writing a history book right now. He'salso writes some of the tests. Some of the schools, some of the states -- you know, the No Child Left Behind Law -- some of the states aren't wanting to write their own tests. So they've had the Princeton Review write them. In fact, one of the states complained because the test was too hard. They wanted their students to pass (laughs). He's thinking about going back to school. He wants to go to law school. He's thinking about doing it either at Berkeley or Stanford. Of course, Berkeley's affiliated with Columbia, so it would be nice if he did that. 01:08:00
KRAnd your other son is in Utah. What does he do, what does he and his wife do.
DSRuth is a homemaker. She got her degree in travel and I guess something else.Anyhow, she worked at the Marriott chain in Dallas. But after the babies came, she stayed home. She works part time at the school now. She's there, their youngest son is 16. Nathan's 23 and Lisa is 21. And Mark is 15.
KRAnd those are the two that are in school? Lisa and Nathan?
DSLisa is not in school this semester, because she went, she left in Novemberfor Brazil. She's a missionary there.
KRThat's right. They have their missionary year.
DSShe's a missionary. She's got two years of college behind her incommunications. Nathan did his missionary work between high school and starting 01:09:00college. He's a junior now at the University of Utah in the same thing.
KRAnd he's in communications as well.
DSBut he's interested also in marketing. Yes, so he's some of that this semester.
KRWhat does your son do?
DSHe's an insurance broker with Marsh.
KRI know the company. What about your son in Texas now Japan? What do they do?
DSNathan -- Michael is in Japan. He works for Hitachi Data Systems. So he's amanager. He was a manager of the software division of North and South America before they sent him to the home office in Japan. He'll be there for two years.
KRWhat about his wife? Does she work?
DSShe was an analyst for Pearl Data Systems, but she quit her job in December.
KRBecause of --
DSJoining him in Japan. She left Friday.
KRDo they have kids.
DSNo. She has a son, she was married years ago. She has a son that lives inCincinnati. He's in the computer business too. They have horses and dogs and 01:10:00cats (laughs).
KRThey're just like kids but they don't talk back.
DSYes, but the kids live forever. (laughs). Paul has one child and Jonathan hasthe three. So I have four grandkids. And then step-grandchild with Michael.
KRWow. Is there anything else you'd like to add at this point?
DSNo. Not really. It's been an interesting life.
KROh yes. Certainly. I love hearing how people go and where they end up. Becausevery few people that I've talked to are in the same place that they started.
DSThat's right. I went back east, let's see. We were going to an elder hostel inLennox, Massachusetts. 2000. I think was the last one we went to over there. I wanted to go to Cape Cod. I hadn't been to Cape Cod in several years. I wanted to Cape Cod first. So flew to New York and then we drove to the Cape. We drove 01:11:00through New Bedford. And my sister said, "Do you want to stop and see anybody?" I said, "Nope. Just drive all the way through." I had no feelings of nostalgia whatsoever. It had been so many years. Although I did go back one time. I have a cousin that lives in Dartmouth, which is right outside of New Bedford. I went to visit her sometime in the '90s. Spent a week with her there. It did nothing for me.
KRDid your parents live there all their lives?
DSMy mother and dad, yes. They were born in Fall River which is 15 miles downthe road.
KRYes. And all the children ended up someplace else.
DSMy brother, yes, Petie and Ray. When he got his master's from MIT, the went toWest Virginia. And then into Deleware which was the headquarters of Dupont where he worked. My brother moved to Texas right after I did. He worked with an engineering company. He was a radio engineer. And then Jackie, of course, was in 01:12:00New York. So we were scattered all over. But we managed to keep in touch all the time.
KRAnd you -- all your siblings are still alive?
DSYes. My brother is 87. No, he's -- he is 87, he's going to be 88 in April.Because I'm 83, now, so he's five years older than I am. But his wife died three years ago, so he's all alone now. He's got one daughter that lives close by.
KRWell that's good.
DSShe's in bad shape. Much worse than he is.
DSShe's a diabetic and going blind and had a stroke. And here he is 88 and goingstrong! (laughs).
KRThe only uncle of all my mother's brothers and sisters -- they had eleven ofthem -- and the only one who is still alive is the eldest. And he's -- he's just, he's been complaining about his health since he was like 50. And he's like 95 now.
DSThat's great. My dad lived 'til 93.01:13:00
KRSo your family is long lived.
DSYes. And my dad had no problems whatsoever until six months before he died. Hejust as healthy as he could be. He used to chin himself every day. He rode his bicycle and just was -- lived alone after my mother died. But he developed carcinoma. Gastric carcinoma. And in six months it killed. him.
KRYes. When it gets into certain organs it can be just like that.
KRWell, I think I'm going to stop the tape for now.